Panthers called about Mims...

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

The only person of note that I can think of is Gilmore, but he wasn't a lock to re-sign with us from the get-go. Anyone else that we traded for was a later day 3 pick (even Gilmore). I'm not gonna be bothered by fives, sixes and sevens. Those guys are generally easy to replace anyway (as are the picks a lot of times by dealing a player that you don't need).

Yeah, that's generally what I mean. We have lost on the one major trade we made(Darnold) and almost all the smaller trades. It's really up to Henderson, Shenault and Mayfield to pull us out of that slump.

The issue is that we burn those later round picks on guys that don't stick or don't make an impact, then trade away guys to get the picks back. Couldn't you just accomplish the same thing by keeping those lower round picks and taking longer shot players? 

Hence why I don't really think Fitterer us some sort of wild genius, he just seems to be a guy that likes making deals. I just want to see him win on some finally.

[Snake]

Lol no way in hell he's worth that. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, that's generally what I mean. We have lost on the one major trade we made(Darnold) and almost all the smaller trades. It's really up to Henderson, Shenault and Mayfield to pull us out of that slump.

The issue is that we burn those later round picks on guys that don't stick or don't make an impact, then trade away guys to get the picks back. Couldn't you just accomplish the same thing by keeping those lower round picks and taking longer shot players? 

Hence why I don't really think Fitterer us some sort of wild genius, he just seems to be a guy that likes making deals. I just want to see him win on some finally.

You think getting picks in return for guys like Little and Daley count as "losses"?

Which trades are you referring to?

[Shocker]

One trade we made that was a head scratcher was Denzel Perryman.  There was talk he didn’t want to be here but getting next to nothing for a LB that went to the pro bowl sucks

[trueblade]

5 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Rhule imo is the reason we gave up so much for Darnold. 

Fitt don't seem like the type to get fleeced, look at all the other trades. 

At that point Fitt had only been here since like Feb or March iirc, move was executed within a couple months. 

I'd have to see or hear something (that neither Fitt or Rhule is ever likely to say) to accept that.

Rookie GM overpaying on one of his first trades is at least plausible to me.

[kungfoodude]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You think getting picks in return for guys like Little and Daley count as "losses"?

Which trades are you referring to?

Let's just take a look at them all. Not gonna include draft moves because those are a separate thing in my mind.

2021

Sam Darnold(2nd, 4th, 6th) - Massive loss.

Greg Little(7th) - Win.

Ryan Santoso(Cond. 7th) - Push. No pick traded.

Darryl Johnson(6th) - Loss. Did not stick with team past one season. No impact(3 games played).

CJ Henderson + 5th(Dan Arnold + 3rd) - TBD

Stephen Gilmore(6th) - Loss. Did not resign with team, played in only 8 games.

2022

Baker Mayfield(Cond. 4th/5th) - TBD.

Dennis Daley + 7th(5th) - Win. 

Laviska Shenault(6th, 7th) - TBD.

 

So, a couple of wins. A couple of losses. A HUGE loss and then a lot of TBD. 

 

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

31 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Let's just take a look at them all. Not gonna include draft moves because those are a separate thing in my mind.

2021

Sam Darnold(2nd, 4th, 6th) - Massive loss.

Greg Little(7th) - Win.

Ryan Santoso(Cond. 7th) - Push. No pick traded.

Darryl Johnson(6th) - Loss. Did not stick with team past one season. No impact(3 games played).

CJ Henderson + 5th(Dan Arnold + 3rd) - TBD

Stephen Gilmore(6th) - Loss. Did not resign with team, played in only 8 games.

2022

Baker Mayfield(Cond. 4th/5th) - TBD.

Dennis Daley + 7th(5th) - Win. 

Laviska Shenault(6th, 7th) - TBD.

 

So, a couple of wins. A couple of losses. A HUGE loss and then a lot of TBD. 

See and that to me says "too early to judge", which is largely where I stand on Fitterer anyway.

I have a generally positive feeling about him, but my overall grade is still an incomplete.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

See and that to me says "too early to judge", which is largely where I stand on Fitterer anyway.

I have a generally positive feeling about him, but my overall grade is still an incomplete.

But, like I said, I would like to see him start winning some of these trades. The majority have been losses(outside the TBD) and the losses definitely outweigh the wins in a big way. 

I will say that all it would take is something like Baker performing well and re-signing here and that would dramatically flip in his favor. I say that even if all other TBD trades end up as losses.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But, like I said, I would like to see him start winning some of these trades. The majority have been losses(outside the TBD) and the losses definitely outweigh the wins in a big way. 

I will say that all it would take is something like Baker performing well and re-signing here and that would dramatically flip in his favor. I say that even if all other TBD trades end up as losses.

I'd agree the Mayfield trade is going to be a pretty significant measure of things.

To be honest though, we barely gave up anything in that transaction. Hell, we're not even paying the majority of his salary.

Knowing that, is a good season enough to call it a success or do we have to have something more?

Edited September 1, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Jackie Lee]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But, like I said, I would like to see him start winning some of these trades. The majority have been losses(outside the TBD) and the losses definitely outweigh the wins in a big way. 

I will say that all it would take is something like Baker performing well and re-signing here and that would dramatically flip in his favor. I say that even if all other TBD trades end up as losses.

Would Baker even be a win if he plays well, wants $40M a year and tests the open market?

[kungfoodude]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd agree the Mayfield trade is going to be a pretty significant measure of things.

To be honest though, we barely gave up anything in that transaction. Hell, we're not even paying the majority of his salary.

Knowing that, is a good season enough to call it a success or do we have to have something more?

I think if we have team success, possibly. But if he ends up signing elsewhere it will end up being somewhat pointless. 

 

[kungfoodude]

35 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Would Baker even be a win if he plays well, wants $40M a year and tests the open market?

If he goes elsewhere, it's probably a push or better. That would depend on how successful the season was for the team.

If he blows the doors off statistically for a 5-7 win team, then leaves for a big deal....what good did that really do us?

If we end up with a winning record or a playoff berth, even if he leaves that is still a success because the price of the recovery was so low.

Edited September 1, 2022 by kungfoodude

[Basbear]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Let's just take a look at them all. Not gonna include draft moves because those are a separate thing in my mind.

2021

Sam Darnold(2nd, 4th, 6th) - Massive loss.

Greg Little(7th) - Win.

Ryan Santoso(Cond. 7th) - Push. No pick traded.

Darryl Johnson(6th) - Loss. Did not stick with team past one season. No impact(3 games played).

CJ Henderson + 5th(Dan Arnold + 3rd) - TBD

Stephen Gilmore(6th) - Loss. Did not resign with team, played in only 8 games.

2022

Baker Mayfield(Cond. 4th/5th) - TBD.

Dennis Daley + 7th(5th) - Win. 

Laviska Shenault(6th, 7th) - TBD.

 

So, a couple of wins. A couple of losses. A HUGE loss and then a lot of TBD. 

 

 

 

 

Mixed bag for sure and too early on most of the important ones. Just to add, Gilmore would have been worth if the panthers made the playoffs. Plus bucs were heavily rumored to his services. Worth it to keep him off that team. Id say the mistake was not getting a comp for him. 

He is trying at least. Herinay made less trades in his whole era. Plus the amount of good/bad.....was heavily bad. Olsen was the saving grace and honestly one of the best trades in NFL history. Traded for a former NC state DT (tank was his name) that was know for falling asleep in meetings, 6th to washington for a WR that I forget(did nothing).

If baker works out, no one will care about Darnold. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Basbear

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Basbear said:

 

Mixed bag for sure and too early on most of the important ones. Just to add, Gilmore would have been worth if the panthers made the playoffs. Plus bucs were heavily rumored to his services. Worth it to keep him off that team. Id say the mistake was not getting a comp for him. 

He is trying at least. Herinay made less trades in his whole era. Plus the amount of good/bad.....was heavily bad. Olsen was the saving grace and honestly one of the best trades in NFL history. Traded for a former NC state DT (tank was his name) that was know for falling asleep in meetings, 6th to washington for a WR that I forget(did nothing).

If baker works out, no one will care about Darnold. 

But that was why Gilmore wasn't worth it. We went 2-6 when he was here and we lost to Tampa anyway. It was ultimately pointless.