Baker Could Be our “Brees”

[Iron Saint]

23 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Payton has a winning record with Bridgewater and Hill, and Teddy was on pace to have a career year. Congrats on Brees throwing a bunch of garbage time stats in 2012 while losing a bunch of games.

You clearly misread the part where I said “sustained success”. Less than a season’s  worth of games between 2 QB’s across multiple seasons ≠ sustained success.

Also curious how you left out Siemian going 0-4 to support your point but I can’t blame you there.

But last I checked, any QB will lose a lot of games when the 3rd ranked offense in the league is scoring 28.8 ppg and the 31st ranked defense they share a locker room with is giving up 28.4 ppg. But that still doesn’t answer the question if Payton gets the credit for that season.

18 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Well that was an impressive hissy fit.

So, back to your "examples."

In the Brees Choke Era

2020: 5th in PPG Defense, 4th in YPG Defense

2019: 13th in PPG Defense, 11th in YPG Defense

2018: 14th in PPG Defense, 14th in YPG Defense

The examples you cited as "proof"

In 2012 and 2015 the Saints went 7-9 and missed the playoffs. So without any defensive help....they lost. That isn't going to the Super Bowl. That isn't even going to the playoffs. 

Burrow 2021

17th in PPG Defense, 18th in YPG Defense

Mahomes 2020(SB Loss)

11th in PPG Defense, 16th in YPG Defense

Mahomes 2019(SB Win)

7th in PPG Defense, 17th in YPG Defense

So, in the three Brees chokes, New Orleans was an upper half YPG/PPG Defense 100% of the time. They were a top 10 YPG/PPG Defense 33% of the time.

In the Burrow/Mahomes SB runs, their respective teams were an upper half YPG/PPG Defense 33% of the time. They were a top 10 YPG/PPG Defense 16.7% of the time.

These were just limited examples. If you want, I can easily destroy the "playing to seed" portion of Brees career. That's up to you.

LOL, “hissy fit”. Hey, if I get quoted/mentioned, I’ll necro-bump a thread to reply if I have to, you know that about me.

And that’s a solid stat pull (that’s what I expect of you ), however you’ve already deviated from your original argument. You stated Mahomes dragged “a weak defense”  to the Super Bowl (your words, not mine) which you immediately backtracked on in your next post confirming they were 7th in points and middle of the pack in yards. Same with Burrow except they were middle of the pack in both yards and points. Neither of those defenses would be considered “weak”; average to above-average, yes. That’s why I said it was a disingenuous argument when you made it.

As for the Brees portion of that, not a surprise you had to use the last 3 years of his career when his arm strength was clearly in decline to prop that argument up (and he still made deep playoff runs 2 of those 3 years) while simultaneously leaving out he won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked 20th in points and 25th in yards. Only the 2011 Giants have won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked lower (25th & 27th) than the 2009 Saints in both points and yards in the Super Bowl era.

And yes, it’s clear the Saints didn’t make the playoffs in 2012 and 2015 but the point I was making bringing up those seasons is Brees willing his way to 7 wins those seasons is nothing short of a miracle itself. Very few QB’s (if any) could’ve dragged those sorry *** defenses to 7 or more wins.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:40 AM, lol_whodat said:

Done talking to y'all now and can't wait to beat your team with Lobber Legs again. By the way at FSU it wasn't crab legs... Have fun believing that your team will actually have a winning record again with no coach. 

Who let this cesspool swamp amoeba in here?

[ForJimmy]

Looks like big boy Trevor Penning is missing a chunk of his rookie season with turf toe. Now it’s Winston with no Peyton and no LT. This should make for a fun season…

[ForJimmy]

Let’s everyone not forget Rhule beat the Saints last year with Sam Darnold. I don’t care if they were missing coaches that’s the most embarrassing poo I’ve seen. All bragging rights are revoked from the Saints because the lethal combo of RHULE and DARNOLD beat them…

[kungfoodude]

6 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

You clearly misread the part where I said “sustained success”. Less than a season’s  worth of games between 2 QB’s across multiple seasons ≠ sustained success.

Also curious how you left out Siemian going 0-4 to support your point but I can’t blame you there.

But last I checked, any QB will lose a lot of games when the 3rd ranked offense in the league is scoring 28.8 ppg and the 31st ranked defense they share a locker room with is giving up 28.4 ppg. But that still doesn’t answer the question if Payton gets the credit for that season.

LOL, “hissy fit”. Hey, if I get quoted/mentioned, I’ll necro-bump a thread to reply if I have to, you know that about me.

And that’s a solid stat pull (that’s what I expect of you ), however you’ve already deviated from your original argument. You stated Mahomes dragged “a weak defense”  to the Super Bowl (your words, not mine) which you immediately backtracked on in your next post confirming they were 7th in points and middle of the pack in yards. Same with Burrow except they were middle of the pack in both yards and points. Neither of those defenses would be considered “weak”; average to above-average, yes. That’s why I said it was a disingenuous argument when you made it.

As for the Brees portion of that, not a surprise you had to use the last 3 years of his career when his arm strength was clearly in decline to prop that argument up (and he still made deep playoff runs 2 of those 3 years) while simultaneously leaving out he won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked 20th in points and 25th in yards. Only the 2011 Giants have won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked lower (25th & 27th) than the 2009 Saints in both points and yards in the Super Bowl era.

And yes, it’s clear the Saints didn’t make the playoffs in 2012 and 2015 but the point I was making bringing up those seasons is Brees willing his way to 7 wins those seasons is nothing short of a miracle itself. Very few QB’s (if any) could’ve dragged those sorry *** defenses to 7 or more wins.

Yeah, except Eli Manning apparently. 

So there is your comparison. Eli Manning.

Wow

 Drew Brees. The next Eli Manning.

[Iron Saint]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:44 AM, ForJimmy said:

Looks like big boy Trevor Penning is missing a chunk of his rookie season with turf toe. Now it’s Winston with no Peyton and no LT. This should make for a fun season…

Hate to break it to you, but Penning wasn't going to be starting this year. Hurst was, and still is, LT1.

Even though they spent a 1st to draft him, he wasn't immediately the heir apparent to Armstead. The same way that Charles Brown (our 2nd rounder in 2010 who Armstead ended up replacing mid-2013) wasn't the heir apparent going into 2011 when our RT Stinchcomb retired.

Ramczyk, who was much more pro-ready, wasn't originally going to be a day-1 starter either but ended up starting Week 1 due to Armstead's propensity to get dinged up, even in camp.

Penning was very raw, but they saw the potential he has and he's already made massive strides in his game in his first camp. Missing a significant portion of this season however will delay any further development which is very unfortunate but he will be a name y'all will hate for years to come.

On 9/1/2022 at 6:49 AM, ForJimmy said:

Let’s everyone not forget Rhule beat the Saints last year with Sam Darnold. I don’t care if they were missing coaches that’s the most embarrassing poo I’ve seen. All bragging rights are revoked from the Saints because the lethal combo of RHULE and DARNOLD beat them…

No one gives a **** about the coaches missing, they shutout Brady in Tampa without Payton. It was the myriad of players on the field we were missing that led to that Week 2 whooping.

No Lattimore, no Davenport, no Onyemata, no Alexander, no Gardner-Johnson. Literally half of the starting defense didn't play in that game. However, they all were on the field for the 2nd game and what happened? 10 points. First game y'all had 5 players with 35+ yards receiving, second game had 0. Passing attack was entirely blanketed and y'all couldn't run the ball, which to be fair y'all were missing McCaffrey who is more than half y'all offense so maybe it's fair.

On 9/1/2022 at 6:55 AM, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, except Eli Manning apparently. 

So there is your comparison. Eli Manning.

Wow

 Drew Brees. The next Eli Manning.

Eli Manning still going to end up in the Hall of Fame though.

But on the real, those Giants teams just got insanely hot at the right time and playoff Eli for some reason was ridiculous on those runs.

Oddly enough though, without our 2011 defense absolutely ****ting the bed not once, but twice in the last 4 minutes of the playoff game against the 49ers after Brees piloted 2 comeback drives to take the lead, Eli likely doesn't get that 2nd ring because they would've gotten dominated again in New Orleans the next week. See, it all circles back to the defense failing to protect a Brees lead late in playoff games.

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, Iron Saint said:

Hate to break it to you, but Penning wasn't going to be starting this year. Hurst was, and still is, LT1.

Even though they spent a 1st to draft him, he wasn't immediately the heir apparent to Armstead. The same way that Charles Brown (our 2nd rounder in 2010 who Armstead ended up replacing mid-2013) wasn't the heir apparent going into 2011 when our RT Stinchcomb retired.

Ramczyk, who was much more pro-ready, wasn't originally going to be a day-1 starter either but ended up starting Week 1 due to Armstead's propensity to get dinged up, even in camp.

Penning was very raw, but they saw the potential he has and he's already made massive strides in his game in his first camp. Missing a significant portion of this season however will delay any further development which is very unfortunate but he will be a name y'all will hate for years to come.

-He was already splitting reps with the 1s. He was drafted to be your LT THIS year, your staff was making him “earn it” like we did with Icky. You guys were so confident in Hurst you drafted Penning in the first. He is big, but a dumb ass who is going to get flagged constantly costing you drives. I was happy he went to a rival and not us. A big, dumb, bad tempered LT who bullied smaller schools his college career. Good luck in the NFL (well once he gets back from IR).

No Lattimore, no Davenport, no Onyemata, no Alexander, no Gardner-Johnson. Literally half of the starting defense didn't play in that game. However, they all were on the field for the 2nd game and what happened? 10 points. First game y'all had 5 players with 35+ yards receiving, second game had 0. Passing attack was entirely blanketed and y'all couldn't run the ball, which to be fair y'all were missing McCaffrey who is more than half y'all offense so maybe it's fair.

-Lattimore is about the only name I recognize in that group of people you named. CMC actually played in that game, but you should still be embarrassed. Kamara had 5 rushing yards and 25 passing. How injured was your offense? Losing to Rhule and Darnold is a complete embarrassment no matter how you look at it…

[Iron Saint]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:56 PM, ForJimmy said:

He was already splitting reps with the 1s. He was drafted to be your LT THIS year, your staff was making him “earn it” like we did with Icky. You guys were so confident in Hurst you drafted Penning in the first. He is big, but a dumb ass who is going to get flagged constantly costing you drives. I was happy he went to a rival and not us. A big, dumb, bad tempered LT who bullied smaller schools his college career. Good luck in the NFL (well once he gets back from IR).

Lattimore is about the only name I recognize in that group of people you named. CMC actually played in that game, but you should still be embarrassed. Kamara had 5 rushing yards and 25 passing. How injured was your offense? Losing to Rhule and Darnold is a complete embarrassment no matter how you look at it…

Wait a minute, you can only recognize Lattimore out of that list of starting defensive players while simultaneously in the same breath trying to tell me who the LT1 is on MY team? LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Go sit down somewhere and peddle that trash to someone that actually believes you know anything about football. You're done, my guy.

And that's cool, y'all then lost the following game where we started our TE at QB.

 

[ForJimmy]

3 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

Wait a minute, you can only recognize Lattimore out of that list of starting defensive players while simultaneously in the same breath trying to tell me who the LT1 is on MY team? LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Go sit down somewhere and peddle that trash to someone that actually believes you know anything about football. You're done, my guy.

And that's cool, y'all then lost the following game where we started our TE at QB.

 

Yep. I actually posted how all the first round LTs were doing when people were freaking out about Icky struggling early. Are you trying to tell me Penning wasn’t on track to be your starting LT? A first round pick splitting reps with the ones early in the preseason and you think he was going to ride the bench this year?? You think I don’t know about football, but how could you possibly miss something so obvious? Wow…
Sorry I don’t recognize random guys on the Saints roster you can put little laughing emojis or lol until you are crying but at the end of the day your team lost to Sam and Rhule. They could only get 7 points? How many players on offense were injured? Now your coach is retired, Brees is gone and you lost half of your secondary.  This brings you here posting on other team’s boards. Must be an exciting year for your Saints…

[Iron Saint]

21 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Yep. I actually posted how all the first round LTs were doing when people were freaking out about Icky struggling early. Are you trying to tell me Penning wasn’t on track to be your starting LT? A first round pick splitting reps with the ones early in the preseason and you think he was going to ride the bench this year?? You think I don’t know about football, but how could you possibly miss something so obvious? Wow…
Sorry I don’t recognize random guys on the Saints roster you can put little laughing emojis or lol until you are crying but at the end of the day your team lost to Sam and Rhule. They could only get 7 points? How many players on offense were injured? Now your coach is retired, Brees is gone and you lost half of your secondary.  This brings you here posting on other team’s boards. Must be an exciting year for your Saints…

Penning gave up 5 pressures, a sack, and a penalty with the 2's in the first preseason game against the Texans. Does that sound like a player on track to win the starting job to you? They were giving him the opportunity to win the job, but he started very sluggish and wasn't capitalizing on it and they weren't going to give it to him so no, he wasn't on track to be the clear cut starting LT going into Week 1.

He didn't start making significant strides until after Hurst went down with his foot injury before the 2nd preseason game with the Packers. Yes, they were giving him some reps with the 1's in practice before then but he wasn't ahead of Hurst at any point during that time both were practicing.

Granted, he started improving when he got more time with the 1's but until his injury and in the event he didn't win the LT1 job outright before the season, his role was more than likely going to be the first man off the bench whether it be in case of injury to Hurst or Ramczyk or even as the 6th OL, but they wanted him to have some live snaps.

Again, this is the same situation we had when Ryan Ramczyk was drafted in the 1st round of 2017. Ramczyk didn't immediately supplant incumbent RT1 Zach Strief in camp that year. However Ramczyk did end up starting Week 1... but at LT, due to an injury to Armstead. And Ramczyk was much more pro-ready than Penning was/is. These are the facts, so no, you don't know what you're talking about despite the incessant goal post moving gymnastics you're trying to pull off.

But LMAO, I've only posting here for those reasons? I've been posting here longer than you have.

And thankfully I have because if I did just start posting here, I'd wrongly assume the other posters here were just as ignorant as you are but I know they aren't. You're giving everyone here a bad look not only to opposing fans but your fellow Panthers fans that would potentially consider signing up here with your bad takes.

[ForJimmy]

42 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

Penning gave up 5 pressures, a sack, and a penalty with the 2's in the first preseason game against the Texans. Does that sound like a player on track to win the starting job to you? They were giving him the opportunity to win the job, but he started very sluggish and wasn't capitalizing on it and they weren't going to give it to him so no, he wasn't on track to be the clear cut starting LT going into Week 1.

He didn't start making significant strides until after Hurst went down with his foot injury before the 2nd preseason game with the Packers. Yes, they were giving him some reps with the 1's in practice before then but he wasn't ahead of Hurst at any point during that time both were practicing.

Granted, he started improving when he got more time with the 1's but until his injury and in the event he didn't win the LT1 job outright before the season, his role was more than likely going to be the first man off the bench whether it be in case of injury to Hurst or Ramczyk or even as the 6th OL, but they wanted him to have some live snaps.

Again, this is the same situation we had when Ryan Ramczyk was drafted in the 1st round of 2017. Ramczyk didn't immediately supplant incumbent RT1 Zach Strief in camp that year. However Ramczyk did end up starting Week 1... but at LT, due to an injury to Armstead. And Ramczyk was much more pro-ready than Penning was/is. These are the facts, so no, you don't know what you're talking about despite the incessant goal post moving gymnastics you're trying to pull off.

But LMAO, I've only posting here for those reasons? I've been posting here longer than you have.

And thankfully I have because if I did just start posting here, I'd wrongly assume the other posters here were just as ignorant as you are but I know they aren't. You're giving everyone here a bad look not only to opposing fans but your fellow Panthers fans that would potentially consider signing up here with your bad takes.

You really think a first round pick that was splitting reps with the 1s (against the guy he was drafted to replace) wasn’t going to get a starting job this year? Icky was in the same boat as Penning after one week of preseason then he “won” the job. The example you keep using is another first round rookie WHO STARTED his rookie year. 

Moving goalposts? I stated you lost your left tackle due to injury and you stated he wasn’t going to start this year. We are still debating that original statement. Do you even know what moving the goalposts means or do you just use it as a generic rebuttal to people arguing with you?

The fact that you have been on an opponent’s message board for a long time is suppose to redeem you? That some how makes it more pathetic. Must be great to be a Saints fan crawling on to opponents boards for all these years! How exciting!

Recap of his last game 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34466638/jameis-winston-efficient-brief-debut-new-orleans-saints-trevor-penning-trequan-smith-leave-hurt?platform=amp

The Saints quickly began to pull offensive starters after that, replacing the entire offensive line and Winston on the next series. But it wasn't quick enough to avoid injuries. Starting left tackle Trevor Penning, a 2022 first-round pick, went to the sideline and was carted off with a toe injury.

Edited September 8, 2022 by ForJimmy

[glenwo2]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:29 AM, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, we just need our Sean Payton equivalent. McAdoo is probably a serviceable OC but we don't have that McVay, Payton, Shanahan, Reid style offensive genius to catapult our QB to the heights that Brees was able to achieve. 

Brees was also ultra motivated after his injury and bring run out of SD. Hopefully Mayfield finds that kind of motivation to make him succeed after what happened in Cleveland.

Motivation would mean nothing if he gets turned into street-pizza by the O-Line.

 

Once again, we are at their mercy of basically "waiting for the other shoe to drop", so to speak.

Baker better get ready to scramble a lot. 

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Motivation would mean nothing if he gets turned into street-pizza by the O-Line.

 

Once again, we are at their mercy of basically "waiting for the other shoe to drop", so to speak.

Baker better get ready to scramble a lot. 

Yeah, that could all come crashing down if this OL doesn't gel or perform well. 

It's a top 3 concern for me headed into the season.

[Iron Saint]

2 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

You really think a first round pick that was splitting reps with the 1s (against the guy he was drafted to replace) wasn’t going to get a starting job this year? Icky was in the same boat as Penning after one week of preseason then he “won” the job. The example you keep using is another first round rookie WHO STARTED his rookie year. 

Moving goalposts? I stated you lost your left tackle due to injury and you stated he wasn’t going to start this year. We are still debating that original statement. Do you even know what moving the goalposts means or do you just use it as a generic rebuttal to people arguing with you?

The fact that you have been on an opponent’s message board for a long time is suppose to redeem you? That some how makes it more pathetic. Must be great to be a Saints fan crawling on to opponents boards for all these years! How exciting!

Recap of his last game 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34466638/jameis-winston-efficient-brief-debut-new-orleans-saints-trevor-penning-trequan-smith-leave-hurt?platform=amp

The Saints quickly began to pull offensive starters after that, replacing the entire offensive line and Winston on the next series. But it wasn't quick enough to avoid injuries. Starting left tackle Trevor Penning, a 2022 first-round pick, went to the sideline and was carted off with a toe injury.

Again, no clue what you're talking about. Penning wasn't drafted to replace Hurst, he was drafted to potentially be the future successor to Terron Armstead who is in Miami and not splitting reps with Penning. Hurst entered camp the incumbent LT1 and he exited camp as the LT1, they gave Penning the opportunity to take the starting job and even though he progressed from where he started camp, he didn't surpass Hurst.

And that's good y'all rookie tackle won his starting job. It has zero bearing on whether our rookie tackle won his job. Penning was with the 1st team OL against the Chargers because Hurst was still dealing with his foot injury. If Hurst didn't injure his foot in joint practices with the Packers, Penning doesn't get those additional snaps. Even if Penning didn't injure his toe against the Chargers, guess what? Hurst would still be starting Sunday against the Falcons.

Penning was with the starting OL the last preseason game out of necessity. The same reason Ramczyk started his rookie year, out of necessity because Armstead was injured at the start of 2017. Are you actually that dense or should I draw you a picture in your favorite color crayon for you to maybe grasp it better?

And I post here (and quite a few other NFL boards, including all NFC South boards) because I typically get very good football conversation out of the majority of posters here, unlike this **** stain of an argument you're trying to prop up.