Training Camp Wednesday 8-10 Discussion

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 hours ago, frankw said:

Only team in history to go from 15 wins and a Super Bowl apperance to 6 wins the following season. Gettleman was the decision maker responsible for our Super Bowl window with that core slamming shut within one season. No sugar coating it.

Part if that had to do with Goodell as well. Scheduling our season opener against Denver then letting them tee off on Cam again. While I don't think that was the all inclusive reason, it was a clear message to the rest of the league that the rules didn't apply to Cam. It was just one of many things that didn't go our way. 

[07579394]

Sam Tecklenburg was a TE,before he added weights.

[ladypanther]

16 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

I’m excited to see Baker and Corral Saturday.

I’m hopeful Baker becomes a top 10-12 QB like he was in 2020 and at the same time I’m excited about Matt Corral. Corral was my favorite QB in the draft.

I’m not expecting to see much from Corral on Saturday. He is at a massive disadvantage given his lack of reps throughout practice. Which is something I hope everyone remembers come Saturday. 

Wasting reps on Sam is the most baffling thing in the world. They’re wasting valuable reps that would greatly benefit Baker. 

I am on board with how they are handling the QB situation.  From a team perspective I believe it is much healthier to let Baker earn the starting spot.  Makes for a better locker room.  Also, as someone said, the team needs to keep Sam engaged in a good way as we need him to be the backup.  I know hating on everything Rhule is the fav sport here (and I am not a fan either) but I like what they are doing here.

[Ricky Spanish]

18 hours ago, frankw said:

Only team in history to go from 15 wins and a Super Bowl apperance to 6 wins the following season. Gettleman was the decision maker responsible for our Super Bowl window with that core slamming shut within one season. No sugar coating it.

It was mainly injuries that did it.

Everyone on the line got hurt at one point or another that year, we were on third string tackles, centers, and fourth string guards most of the season, and let's not forget 2016 is the year that Cam hurt his shoulder and never returned to form. 

We were back in the playoffs the next season once we were able to field a line that had actual NFL level talent on it, but then all of our WRs got hurt/weren't very good (Gettleman gets some blame for this) and that cost us the playoff game against the saints. 

18 was When Hurney had control again and that's when the wheels started falling completely off and Cam's shoulder got reaggravated and.

Like it or not, Gettleman has probably been the team's best GM even if it's not saying much. 

[coffee]

19 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Like it or not, Gettleman has probably been the team's best GM even if it's not saying much. 

Disagree wholeheartedly.

He rode the Hurney-built team to the Super Bowl and milked it for everything he could.

Other than that, his claims to fame were "making the tough decisions."  What that actually translated to was dismantling a team by getting rid of stars without replacing them AND without fixing cap woes.

[frankw]

27 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

It was mainly injuries that did it.

Everyone on the line got hurt at one point or another that year, we were on third string tackles, centers, and fourth string guards most of the season, and let's not forget 2016 is the year that Cam hurt his shoulder and never returned to form. 

We were back in the playoffs the next season once we were able to field a line that had actual NFL level talent on it, but then all of our WRs got hurt/weren't very good (Gettleman gets some blame for this) and that cost us the playoff game against the saints. 

18 was When Hurney had control again and that's when the wheels started falling completely off and Cam's shoulder got reaggravated and.

Like it or not, Gettleman has probably been the team's best GM even if it's not saying much. 

[Ricky Spanish]

10 minutes ago, coffee said:

Disagree wholeheartedly.

He rode the Hurney-built team to the Super Bowl and milked it for everything he could.

Other than that, his claims to fame were "making the tough decisions."  What that actually translated to was dismantling a team by getting rid of stars without replacing them AND without fixing cap woes.

Hurney drafted the stars, I won't argue that, but it was not his team that he built. 

Hurney Teams were always top heavy with a STEEP drop off from the starters to the backups.

Gettleman's teams, while stacked with Hurney's super stars in Cam, Luke, Olsen, and TD also had better, more competent depth and a less severe decline from first string to second string. Teams with no depth rarely succeed, hence why Hurney Teams only had 3 winning seasons in 15 years as GM.

3/5 > 3/15

 

[coffee]

2 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Hurney drafted the stars, I won't argue that, but it was not his team that he built. 

Hurney Teams were always top heavy with a STEEP drop off from the starters to the backups.

Gettleman's teams, while stacked with Hurney's super stars in Cam, Luke, Olsen, and TD also had better, more competent depth and a less severe decline from first string to second string. Teams with no depth rarely succeed, hence why Hurney Teams only had 3 winning seasons in 15 years as GM.

I agree that it's a bigger drop-off from a star to a JAG than it is from a JAG to a JAG.

[Khaki Lackey]

16 minutes ago, coffee said:

Disagree wholeheartedly.

He rode the Hurney-built team to the Super Bowl and milked it for everything he could.

Other than that, his claims to fame were "making the tough decisions."  What that actually translated to was dismantling a team by getting rid of stars without replacing them AND without fixing cap woes.

Garbage. Hurney’s Built team was two no brainer top ten picks,  a cap disaster and 2-14, 6-10, 7-9, his last 3 seasons. 

 

[Ricky Spanish]

34 minutes ago, coffee said:

I agree that it's a bigger drop-off from a star to a JAG than it is from a JAG to a JAG.

Hurney Backups weren't even JAGs man, half of them were out of the league before their rookie contracts were up.

And it's a little disingenuous to call guys like Norwell, Turner, Short, Lotulelei, Oher, Harper, Tillman, Coleman, and Cotchery JAGs. All were good to great that season and major contributors to the team that season.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Ricky Spanish said:

It was mainly injuries that did it.

Everyone on the line got hurt at one point or another that year, we were on third string tackles, centers, and fourth string guards most of the season, and let's not forget 2016 is the year that Cam hurt his shoulder and never returned to form. 

We were back in the playoffs the next season once we were able to field a line that had actual NFL level talent on it, but then all of our WRs got hurt/weren't very good (Gettleman gets some blame for this) and that cost us the playoff game against the saints. 

18 was When Hurney had control again and that's when the wheels started falling completely off and Cam's shoulder got reaggravated and.

Like it or not, Gettleman has probably been the team's best GM even if it's not saying much. 

Objectively speaking, the most successful...

Granted, when your list of other contenders consists of a guy that's only been at it for two years and Marty Hurney, it's not exactly like you've got stiff competition.

[coffee]

2 hours ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Hurney Backups weren't even JAGs man, half of them were out of the league before their rookie contracts were up.

And it's a little disingenuous to call guys like Norwell, Turner, Short, Lotulelei, Oher, Harper, Tillman, Coleman, and Cotchery JAGs. All were good to great that season and major contributors to the team that season.

 

I apologize.  It appears I accidentally hijacked the thread.  

I'll just say this:  I think we are looking at it from two different perspectives.  I agree with you that those players are not JAGs, so I see your point.  I hope you will see mine as well.  Those same players were mostly short-lived patches while practically every position overall weakened during Gettleman's time here.

Oher, for example was wonderful that one year as you said.  Overall, would you really classify his time in Carolina as a success?  How was the position of LT during and after Gettleman's term?  Holding on to Oher for waaaaay too long directly led to a terrible, desperate and horribly expensive decision to bring in Matt Kalil.  He made the tough decision to let Smitty go, but what did he do to shore up the position.  He made the tough decision to let Josh Norman go and then we had to practically waste a draft to try and fix it while starting an all-rookie CB crew.

So, yes, I see your points.  They are good points and I'm sure you can bring up more good points.  But overall, I just cannot agree that he was the best GM we've had.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, coffee said:

I apologize.  It appears I accidentally hijacked the thread.  

I'll just say this:  I think we are looking at it from two different perspectives.  I agree with you that those players are not JAGs, so I see your point.  I hope you will see mine as well.  Those same players were mostly short-lived patches while practically every position overall weakened during Gettleman's time here.

Oher, for example was wonderful that one year as you said.  Overall, would you really classify his time in Carolina as a success?  How was the position of LT during and after Gettleman's term?  Holding on to Oher for waaaaay too long directly led to a terrible, desperate and horribly expensive decision to bring in Matt Kalil.  He made the tough decision to let Smitty go, but what did he do to shore up the position.  He made the tough decision to let Josh Norman go and then we had to practically waste a draft to try and fix it while starting an all-rookie CB crew.

So, yes, I see your points.  They are good points and I'm sure you can bring up more good points.  But overall, I just cannot agree that he was the best GM we've had.

Who would you vote for then?

[coffee]

It almost feels I'm cheating to say Bill Polian.

I know Hurney had his major flaws, but I like his flaws better than Gettleman's.