A bit of perspective (re Corral)

[top dawg]

17 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It was YOUR ARGUMENT. You set the terms. Your terms were trash. You mocked the existence of recency bias on search algorithms which is fuging absurd. Now you're continuing to completely talk out of your ass.

This is why no one on this site takes your and your opinions seriously. You don't even seemingly take yourself seriously.

You aren't going to accept ANY info regarding Corral's arm talent. The "significantly better" argument is pretty much yours and yours alone.

Plenty of people take my arguments seriously. Are you daft? I'm not trying to be juvenile (but I must in this exchange), but I am a valued poster on this site. Can you say the same? Other than being a mod, what do you do, but lead the whine crowd. Just stop! It's not befitting of a moderator!

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by top dawg

[frankw]

Guys take it easy it's only Monday. No need to go all scorched Earth on each other. Save that for the trolls.

[poundaway]

We don't have apples to apples on Corral v Baker arm talent.

That said, Baker holds the record for the longest throw (incomplete) in NFL history: https://news.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-threw-longest-recorded-220611858.html

He is regularly top ten in deep ball accuracy:

 

Since coming into the league, only Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes have a higher big-time throw rate than Mayfield (6.0%).

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-which-teams-make-sense-baker-mayfield

Baker has shown his arm in the NFL.

Corral will get his chance at some point and then we'll see.

[poundaway]

2 minutes ago, Pakmeng said:

It says the longest throw recorded by PFF, not NFL history.

Fair enough.

The title:  Baker Mayfield threw the longest recorded pass in NFL history, and it went so far that a defender crashed into the goalpost

But you're right, it looks like Rodgers holds the record and Mayfield has some pff record.

The point still stands that Mayfield has an arm.

[top dawg]

23 minutes ago, poundaway said:

We don't have apples to apples on Corral v Baker arm talent.

That said, Baker holds the record for the longest throw (incomplete) in NFL history: https://news.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-threw-longest-recorded-220611858.html

He is regularly top ten in deep ball accuracy:

 

Since coming into the league, only Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes have a higher big-time throw rate than Mayfield (6.0%).

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-which-teams-make-sense-baker-mayfield

Baker has shown his arm in the NFL.

Corral will get his chance at some point and then we'll see.

Arm strength and arm talent aren't necessarily the same thing. Indeed there is no consensus definition for "arm talent." That being said, in my opinion it does consist of several throwing traits, including arm strength, accuracy and touch. I'd include mechanics because they can speak directly to the others, but I'll leave them out, lest there's some huge disagreement.

Baker's arm is strong. His accuracy is OK, but hasn't been nearly as good as his college days. His touch is suspect. His mechanics are inconsistent.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/02/where-baker-mayfield-was-hit-and-miss-with-his-passes-in-2021.html%3foutputType=amp.             

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/the-baker-mayfield-stats-that-explain-his-2021-season-with-the-browns.html%3foutputType=amp.     

 

Here is also an interesting article on QB traits. You can take it FWIW, but according to some analysts at ESPN, there are traits that QBs should excel in to succeed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32050570/nfl-quarterback-council-2021-ranking-top-10-qbs-arm-strength-accuracy-decision-making-rushing-ability-more%3fplatform=amp. 

 

You're exactly right, Corral will get his day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[top dawg]

32 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Fair enough.

The title:  Baker Mayfield threw the longest recorded pass in NFL history, and it went so far that a defender crashed into the goalpost

But you're right, it looks like Rodgers holds the record and Mayfield has some pff record.

The point still stands that Mayfield has an arm.

Baker's pass was the longest in an NFL game. He threw the ball 70.5 yards (essentially without any pressure whatsoever. Look at the play).

Corral threw the all 77 yards in a  throwing competition before college. 

Take from it what you will. My point is that his arm is plenty strong. Many people, including analysts, have rightfully referred to his arm as a "cannon."

 

[poundaway]

47 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Baker's arm is strong. His accuracy is OK, but hasn't been nearly as good as his college days.

 

And thats just it,  College<> NFL.  Whatever they do at an unofficial HS competition or in college does not always translate.  We'll see if Corral is as good in the NFL as he was in college. 

 
I'm not going to go pull up the scouting reports on Corral listing his weaknesses, cause I'm pulling for the guy. 

The game you're playing knocking Baker so that you can prop up Corral is only going to irritate people against him.  If that's your goal, its working.

Edited August 1, 2022 by poundaway

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, poundaway said:

And thats just it,  College<> NFL.  Whatever they do at an unofficial HS competition or in college does not always translate.  We'll see if Corral is as good in the NFL as he was in college. 

 
I'm not going to go pull up the scouting reports on Corral listing his weaknesses, cause I'm pulling for the guy. 

The game you're playing knocking Baker so that you can prop up Corral is only going to irritate people against him.  If that's your goal, its working.

First off, I was responding to a slight on Corral. In my opinion, it's a stretch to say Baker has "significantly better" arm talent than Corral, especially when there is ample information in articles, vids, draft profiles and scouting reports that list Corral's arm talent as a plus (if not more). Secondly, much of the same information mentions Corral's arm strength as a plus (e.g. in relation to his arm, "cannon" and "live" are terms used). Third, if you throw the ball 77 yards, you throw the ball 77 yards. There's no need to belittle the feat. 

If someone gets "irritated" at Corral for me giving pushback to what I deem is misinformation or unfair knocks, then they have some issues. 

As for Baker, sorry that you deem readily available information on him that is indicative of his body of work as a "knock." He's going to have to improve upon his decision making, demonstrate greater field vision, be more consistent with his mechanics, and show up in crunch time, and simply be better than he was in Cleveland before I crown his ass. And that doesn't have anything to do with Corral who has already been told that he is the future of the franchise. So, sooner or later--likely later--he will get his chance. 

Darnold and Mayfield have been in the league for four years and have not proven to be elite, and that's just the way it is. 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by top dawg

[mc52beast]

Looking towards the future, what do the Panthers do if Baker plays well? Do they sign him to a long term contract knowing Corral is waiting in the wings?

[ForJimmy]

Regardless of how this all turns out, if I was told after last year our QB room would be Baker and Corral I would be thrilled. Baker/Corral is so much better than Sam/PJ. We have a capable starter with some upside, plus a promising rookie and that is a win considering our QB room lately. 
 

-Not to mention the OL overhaul with Ickey, Bozeman, and Corbett! 

Edited August 2, 2022 by ForJimmy

[Jared Patterson]

1 hour ago, mc52beast said:

Looking towards the future, what do the Panthers do if Baker plays well? Do they sign him to a long term contract knowing Corral is waiting in the wings?

Worst case scenario 

[poundaway]

15 hours ago, top dawg said:

First off, I was responding to a slight on Corral. In my opinion, it's a stretch to say Baker has "significantly better" arm talent than Corral, especially when there is ample information in articles, vids, draft profiles and scouting reports that list Corral's arm talent as a plus (if not more). Secondly, much of the same information mentions Corral's arm strength as a plus (e.g. in relation to his arm, "cannon" and "live" are terms used). Third, if you throw the ball 77 yards, you throw the ball 77 yards. There's no need to belittle the feat. 

If someone gets "irritated" at Corral for me giving pushback to what I deem is misinformation or unfair knocks, then they have some issues. 

As for Baker, sorry that you deem readily available information on him that is indicative of his body of work as a "knock." He's going to have to improve upon his decision making, demonstrate greater field vision, be more consistent with his mechanics, and show up in crunch time, and simply be better than he was in Cleveland before I crown his ass. And that doesn't have anything to do with Corral who has already been told that he is the future of the franchise. So, sooner or later--likely later--he will get his chance. 

Darnold and Mayfield have been in the league for four years and have not proven to be elite, and that's just the way it is. 

 

Mayfield was a better QB in college than Corrall.  Everything negative you said about Baker in the NFL applies to Corrall in college.

Corrall hasn't even shown in camp that we should "crown his ass."

Be patient.  Give the kid time to develop.  Sheesh.

[rippadonn]

I don't know where all these closet Baker Mayfield fans came from.

He was available and NOBODY was breaking their neck to trade for him like DeSean Watson. Nobody.

This is Bakers last chance but there is a hungry Lion in the QB room and guys are looking rich, fat and happy.

Yum!

[rippadonn]

38 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Mayfield was a better QB in college than Corrall.  Everything negative you said about Baker in the NFL applies to Corrall in college.

Corrall hasn't even shown in camp that we should "crown his ass."

Be patient.  Give the kid time to develop.  Sheesh.

Mayfield failed in the NFL. Proven. This job is his last chance.

Corral on the other hand, trending upward like a rocket arm.

Other rookies have played. He's building merit daily, not just by showing up first.

Let the kid play. Mac did Zach did.