Baker Mayfield watch

[pantherj]

We already have a nice plan in place. Start Sam and if he hasn't improved then put in Corral. If Corral doesn't show any signs of being that guy, then draft a possible franchise QB in the 2023 draft. That's actually a good plan for once by the Panthers.

Now if we trade away our 1st round 2023 pick, or we don't take a QB in 2023 then I am done with the Panthers until Rhule is fired.

[pantherj]

4 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Is Baker better than TB5?

Baker is absolutely terrible. A walking interception machine.

[ForJimmy]

22 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Who are these qbs that are developed by the staffs? 

 

Did we not try this with Grier and now PJ?  I dont think sitting qbs has the desired effect that you think it does.

I don't think Grier or PJ were meant to be starters.  Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson etc didn't start week one and came in later in the season as a starter.  It's what the NIners are trying to do with Lance, the Titans with Willis. 

[kungfoodude]

37 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Staffords franchise was bad but it was obvious he could play from the jump

 

Again, I dont buy the whole "lets sit the qb and let them develop".   Throw Corral in sooner then later and see what he has.

Agreed. The modern era has shown that QB's with the ability to play well will show themselves pretty early. All the "development talk" always surrounds QB's that kick around the league with the same tired hope that they will eventually become something they aren't. Ryan Tannehill is never gonna be elite. Jameis Winston is never gonna be elite. Mitch Trubisky is never gonna be elite. Marcus Mariota is never gonna be elite.

 

[kungfoodude]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't know about infinitely more. Don't think it's that lopsided.

You have to account for the fact that there are also loads of examples of guys starting from the jump who turn out to be total busts.

What could have happened if those guys had been able to sit and learn?

They probably would still have been busts. I don't think many great players were ruined by lack of development. It's professional sports, if you aren't developing yourself, you aren't an elite player.

[Mr. Scot]

24 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Again if there was a correlation among qbs that sit and "develop" and then become pro bowl players then it would permeate among nfl franchises.  They as a whole are all not that stupid.

Oh, I'd say when it comes to developing quarterbacks in the nfl, there's a lot of "stupid", with equal amounts of "impatient" and the occasional "desperate" sprinkled in for good measure.

Factor in also that some of those early starts weren't the original plan. Both Justin Herbert and Davis Mills were supposed to sit behind Tyrod Taylor but he got injured both years. Likewise, Russell Wilson was expected to learn behind the great Matt Flynn but it didn't work out.

[kungfoodude]

22 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Is Baker better than TB5?

Eh.....Probably?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Agreed. The modern era has shown that QB's with the ability to play well will show themselves pretty early. All the "development talk" always surrounds QB's that kick around the league with the same tired hope that they will eventually become something they aren't. Ryan Tannehill is never gonna be elite. Jameis Winston is never gonna be elite. Mitch Trubisky is never gonna be elite. Marcus Mariota is never gonna be elite.

 

How many of those guys sat, though?

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

They probably would still have been busts. I don't think many great players were ruined by lack of development. It's professional sports, if you aren't developing yourself, you aren't an elite player.

Can't agree.

Prime example? David Carr. Carr received some of the worst coaching I've ever heard of during his early seasons (he wasn't taught to read defenses, just throw to a spot). And of course, they did a piss poor job of protecting him as well.

I have to believe those mistakes had an effect.

[Varking]

27 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Is Baker better than TB5?

Yes. 

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, Verge said:

It's not that bad. 

If it involves draft picks from us it's bad, very bad.  It's bad enough to pick up most of that assholes salary in the deal but to throw in draft picks? No thank you.

[SetfreexX]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fitterer is the guy who repeatedly said the best path was to take a young quarterback and build around him.

Not sure I buy that he's the one pushing for Mayfield.

Fitterer could still feel this way and want Baker, GMs want to win also, Baker gives you the one year to let Matt develop, while also being competitive as it's clear Baker is an upgrade over Sam. 

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

How many of those guys sat, though?

Can't agree.

Prime example? David Carr. Carr received some of the worst coaching I've ever heard of during his early seasons (he wasn't taught to read defenses, just throw to a spot). And of course, they did a piss poor job of protecting him as well.

I have to believe those mistakes had an effect.

You can disagree but I have heard plenty of professional athletes mirror what I am saying. That's why I hold that opinion. Even at the professional level there is only so much development they have the time or bandwidth to do. It's on the athlete to take the additional time and effort to keep improving. 

Carr might have been ruined by that battering but Burrow is out there getting destroyed week in and week out and he drug his team to the Super Bowl. Same with Cam Newton.

Does sitting sometimes make the transition a little bit smoother? Yeah, it definitely can. But was sitting for a year the REASON those players were successful? fuging....absolutely not.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You can disagree but I have heard plenty of professional athletes mirror what I am saying. That's why I hold that opinion. Even at the professional level there is only so much development they have the time or bandwidth to do. It's on the athlete to take the additional time and effort to keep improving. 

Carr might have been ruined by that battering but Burrow is out there getting destroyed week in and week out and he drug his team to the Super Bowl. Same with Cam Newton.

Does sitting sometimes make the transition a little bit smoother? Yeah, it definitely can. But was sitting for a year the REASON those players were successful? fuging....absolutely not.

And smart couches like Andy Reid and others have done the opposite.

As mentioned before, I don't think either one is a universal answer. I think you have to take into account the player, the coach, the team around them and other things to decide what's best.

And yes, sometimes it's to sit.

[Mr. Scot]

36 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It's what the NIners are trying to do with Lance, the Titans with Willis. 

Willis is a prime example of a guy who needs to sit and learn first.

Lance, though? I think it was the plan, but I think he's sitting now not just to learn but also because he's not very good.