Derrick Brown slimming down

[PootieNunu]

11 hours ago, Jared Patterson said:

Why do you guys dislike Derrick Brown? He is a very good young player who is playing DT which takes awhile to transition and is constantly graded higher than other players in his class Kinlaw, etc. Also, his grades are above average for all DTs and he has a very strong work ethic to get better. The coaches love him and he has potential to be a monster in this league. Go listen to what other players say about Brown like Brian Burns and those who have played against him. Dude is a stud IMO. He just needs to put it together. 

I dont dislike either of them, just expecting more, especially from Burns. 

We all thought Burns could be one of the top pass rushers in the league, but his season high is  9 sacks 2 years in a row. He also has problems stopping the run. The truly elite guys are getting 15+ and stopping the run.

[Icege]

21 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

I dont dislike either of them, just expecting more, especially from Burns. 

We all thought Burns could be one of the top pass rushers in the league, but his season high is  9 sacks 2 years in a row. He also has problems stopping the run. The truly elite guys are getting 15+ and stopping the run.

I think that's the rub right there.

Most folks look at 1st round picks and think that they have to be elite players when in actuality, their draft status had more to do with their ceiling + ability to come in and immediately start (not saying that's the case with you btw, just what I see generally). Only a few kids will go into the NFL and immediately compete with the grown men whose families rely on them to provide.

There's also the emphasis on banking on players to be "elite" that creates further discontent. For example, the 15+ sacks threshold. Let's look at just how many players have achieved that in the last few seasons:

• 2021: TJ Watt, Robert Quinn, Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa
• 2020: TJ Watt
• 2019: Shaquil Barrett, Chandler Jones, Cameron Jordan
• 2018: Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, Chris Jones

Over the last four seasons, only ten individual players have broken 15 sacks. Hoping that our players achieve elite status is one thing, but expecting them to? That seems like it would just set us up to be disappointed most of the time.

It's also worth mentioning that TJ Watt and Shaquil Barrett were the only two players on rookie contracts to do so out of the 10 players listed.

Both Brown and Burns are solid, and while I'd love for them to do better on the stat sheets as well, that likely isn't happening until the play around them is elevated as well.

Somewhat related note: holy poo does it suck to play OT for the Ravens in a division with TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, and Trey Hendrickson coming at you for 80 snaps. Then there's Jadaveon Clowney, Chase Winovich, and Sam Hubbard to deal with as well.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Icege

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Icege said:

I think that's the rub right there.

Most folks look at 1st round picks and think that they have to be elite players when in actuality, their draft status had more to do with their ceiling + ability to come in and immediately start (not saying that's the case with you btw, just what I see generally). Only a few kids will go into the NFL and immediately compete with the grown men whose families rely on them to provide.

There's also the emphasis on banking on players to be "elite" that creates further discontent. For example, the 15+ sacks threshold. Let's look at just how many players have achieved that in the last few seasons:

• 2021: TJ Watt, Robert Quinn, Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa
• 2020: TJ Watt
• 2019: Shaquil Barrett, Chandler Jones, Cameron Jordan
• 2018: Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, Chris Jones

Over the last four seasons, only ten individual players have broken 15 sacks. Hoping that our players achieve elite status is one thing, but expecting them to? That seems like it would just set us up to be disappointed most of the time.

It's also worth mentioning that TJ Watt and Shaquil Barrett were the only two players on rookie contracts to do so out of the 10 players listed.

Both Brown and Burns are solid, and while I'd love for them to do better on the stat sheets as well, that likely isn't happening until the play around them is elevated as well.

Somewhat related note: holy poo does it suck to play OT for the Ravens in a division with TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, and Trey Hendrickson coming at you for 80 snaps. Then there's Jadaveon Clowney, Chase Winovich, and Sam Hubbard to deal with as well.

Brown's problem is that he lacks a lot of discipline. He is pushing so hard trying to get sacks that he often gets redirected out of plays, especially in run defense. He's extremely inconsistent. Far better pass rusher than most thought but he really is far, far worse at run stuffing than I ever expected. Hence why he really needs to figure it this season. It's going to be tough to think about extending a guy that just cannot play well consistently.

Burns should have double digit sacks every season. Not just because they play 17 games but I swear he misses the most sacks that are right at his fingertips of any Panthers player I can recall. If he hit on 60% of those, he'd be well into the double digits in sacks. He just needs to keep working to get a better and more diverse set of pass rush moves and being disciplined on run plays.

Both of these guys have the ability to be great/elite, but they just haven't been able to put it together yet.

[Michael G]

RE: Brown and Burns

IMO Brown's inconsistencies are in part to do with how he is being used in Snow's defense. At Auburn he stuffed the A gaps and got push up the middle. It was simple - not a lot of different alignments and responsibilities. The talent in the NFL and speed of the game makes it difficult for him to have success at those things, plus he's being switched around along the line playing different techniques with different responsibilities. He's not processing his different duties as fast, because he's not completely comfortable with what's he is required to do.

Burns has such a great first step- but he whiffs so much. He also struggle to set the Edge because that first step (after the QB) often helps tackles wall him off or push him out of the play. I'm not sure how to help that--watching tape to get better at anticipating the plays ran at him maybe...practicing wrapping up (fundamental tackling)..I'd guess. Maybe developing an "inside" move rather than speeding around the end...

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Michael G

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Michael G said:

RE: Brown and Burns

IMO Brown's inconsistencies are in part to do with how he is being used in Snow's defense. At Auburn he stuffed the A gaps and got push up the middle. It was simple - not a lot of different alignments and responsibilities. The talent in the NFL and speed of the game makes it difficult for him to have success at those things, plus he's being switched around along the line playing different techniques with different responsibilities. He's not processing his different duties as fast, because he's not completely comfortable with what's he is required to do.

Burns has such a great first step- but he whiffs so much. He also struggle to set the Edge because that first step (after the QB) often helps tackles wall him off or push him out of the play. I'm not sure how to help that--watching tape to get better at anticipating the plays ran at him maybe...practicing wrapping up (fundamental tackling)..I'd guess. Maybe developing an "inside" move rather than speeding around the end...

 

Yeah, right now Burns does not have an advanced array of pass rush moves that he utilizes. He is kind of a one trick pony, which is definitely a concern. 

[TheMaulClaw]

18 hours ago, Snake said:

Then why ask questions like that? 

I didn't ask a question. My only point is 5lbs of weight loss doesn't necessarily mean losing power...especially at over the 300 lbs marker.

[top dawg]

On 6/1/2022 at 3:18 PM, trueblade said:

Regarding the Burns part, isn't 255 still a little light for a DE?

Pep was a freak of nature. I don't think Panthers fans really appreciated that fact.