Ben McAdoo Presser

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'm not interested in "ranking" our OC...that's silly.  We don't know.  I'm evaluating his body of work and I'm saying it's limited but it's overall encouraging.  That's it.  Pretty uncontroversial IMO to a levelheaded person.  You're the one taking a hard-line stance on McAdoo and I was trying to understand your reasoning for that.  Cause last time we had a discussion where I questioned your reasoning (revolving around Joe Brady), you basically walked back everything you said about him originally.  You went from him being an impressive OC who produced career numbers for our offense, to now holding the opinion that he is even worse than McAdoo who you are already calling a bottom 1/3 OC.  It feels like you generally start with your conclusion already formulated and then try to develop your arguments/premises as you go, rather than the other way around.

Speaking of your reasoning...shame on me for formulating my opinion based on statistics while you adopt your opinion from a single Giants' fan lol.  Imagine taking one random Huddler's opinion and building your entire argument around that.  I mean there are legit some Panthers fans out there who say Cam was a meh QB for us.  "Numbers lie" and yet you've admitted to basically regurgitating what your brother-in-law has told you?  I think we can leave things there...I just wish I had known I was arguing against your brother-in-law by proxy this whole time cause that explains a lot.

Well you are interested in having a problem with someone declaring McAdoo a bottom 3rd OC.  

so if you don’t want the make case he belongs elsewhere than the bottom 3rd ….then why dig in to attacking where I got him. 

You want to know about Cam Newton’s career? I’d argue someone YOU deemed a knowledgeable Panther fan that watched his career would provide better insight than a random Texan fan who never watched him play…yet pulled some stats.  And I did say I was putting a lot of weight into my Giant fan BIL’s breakdown of McAdoo.  But that wasn’t all of it.  The league has made their position known too.  He was rejected year after year for all OC jobs.  And was rejected for even most of the QB coach jobs.  Only the lowly Jags would bring him in as a QB coach for one season.  That’s the league talking.   That carries some real weight IMO.  There is also the coverage of McAdoo’s entire career as a playcaller/coach by reporters.  Which is a muddy bag.  And I do some of my own watching and stat looking too.   

and all that info combined….says he is a bottom 3rd OC and unreasonable expectations are now being put on him and what he is capable of by a select few.  He has Matt Rhule and Sam Darnold.    And he has a lot of red flags on his own as a coach without being partnered with those two.  

and I might be wrong.  Who knows.  It’s happened before plenty.  But I’ve never been one to jump on a lot of hype bandwagons that things will be different for known commodities simply because they are now Panthers.   People hated I called Teddy a checkdown QB when we signed him.  People argued he wouldn’t be. Hated I thought NY Darnold simply was what he was.  You might can get me for a new to the league draft pick hype bandwagon but that’s about it.    

[Camp Fodder]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:41 PM, GRWatcher said:

I'll reserve judgement on McAdoo until I see our offense come out after halftime with adjustments that the defense didn't anticipate.

Not even halftime but after the first drive. It’s amazing how many times last year we went right down the field and scored on our opening drive and didn’t score a TD the rest of the game. 

[poundaway]

23 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

 I'm evaluating his body of work and I'm saying it's limited but it's overall encouraging.  That's it.  Pretty uncontroversial IMO to a levelheaded person. 

Yup.

[poundaway]

On 6/2/2022 at 6:07 PM, kungfoodude said:

Rumors aren't facts.

I'm pretty sure they are in Huddle Land.

[poundaway]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:33 AM, MasterAwesome said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/sports/football/new-york-giants-hire-ben-mcadoo-a-coughlin-assistant-but-his-own-man.html

https://nypost.com/2014/10/07/an-inside-look-at-why-and-how-coughlin-turned-over-the-reins/

 

Excellent post.

[poundaway]

I am very interested to see what the O looks like.  Mcadoo did NOT use a run first system in NY.  It was a west coast spread pass heavy system.  You really need a QB who does not suck for that.  I just don't see how this will work with Sam, he was pretty bad last year, just as he was with the Jets.    The more I think about it, the more I think Corral is going to be QB1 sooner rather than later.

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:58 AM, CRA said:

No one would touch McAdoo as OC for years.  Bumbling Matt Rhule finally would.  That’s probably a red flag in itself.

That's something I hadn't thought about.  Rhule hasn't been the brightest light bulb in the room when it comes to hiring coaches.  Though I do like the Campen and Wilks hires.

That said McAdoo wants to run the ball.  We now have on offensive line (at least on paper) that is built to maul some people.  CMC, if he stays healthy, might have his best season as a runner and along with Foreman we might bring back the glory days of Double Trouble. 

He's had success before.  I believe most coaches when they get fired reflect on what went good and what went bad. And take that experience and become better providing their egos don't get in the way, ie Nagy.

I get your point but I rather be optimistic than pessimistic.  

I like all the hires we have made so far and optimistically hope he's the right hire for the team we have. We better hope so because Corral is his type of QB.  The next coaching staff, if Rhule/McAdoo fails, may not like him.

[poundaway]

 

23 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It's literally a free market system in the NFL. "Value" is very often dictated by abilities, hype, positional value, etc. So, when the market is largely saying they don't want McAdoo, they are saying he doesn't have value. If he in fact were a guy that was perceived as being an offensive genius or even above average OC, he would have been employed by now. You want a good example? Norv Turner. Failed at every head coaching stuff but was almost always an extremely successful OC and never struggled to get a job in that capacity. 

The Rhule/Giants example is just getting off track even further. You tried to use it in the post I was replying to and I just simply responded that regardless of "negotiation" we threw an offer at him VERY quickly after the first interview. I rather doubt how much negotiation based on both the timeline of the meeting to hiring, and also that the other interested party dropped out of the race. I don't really even care about debating this point. It has no bearing on the McAdoo situation at all other than Rhule was a very dumb hire in hindsight and the same dysfunctional organization that hired him also hired McAdoo.

TLDR, he wasn't an attractive candidate to anyone in the NFL other than us and largely because not many coaches with better prospects would choose to come here.

Who did you want for OC?

Edited June 4, 2022 by poundaway

[kungfoodude]

28 minutes ago, poundaway said:

 

Who did you want for OC?

I didn't have an opinion because I assumed it would just be Rhule's buddy that was the interim OC. 

I don't hate the hire because at least we have someone with actual NFL experience but I am also not delusional enough to start jumping for joy because it isn't like this dude is some wunderkind of an OC.

[CRA]

45 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

That's something I hadn't thought about.  Rhule hasn't been the brightest light bulb in the room when it comes to hiring coaches.  Though I do like the Campen and Wilks hires.

That said McAdoo wants to run the ball.  We now have on offensive line (at least on paper) that is built to maul some people.  CMC, if he stays healthy, might have his best season as a runner and along with Foreman we might bring back the glory days of Double Trouble. 

He's had success before.  I believe most coaches when they get fired reflect on what went good and what went bad. And take that experience and become better providing their egos don't get in the way, ie Nagy.

I get your point but I rather be optimistic than pessimistic.  

I like all the hires we have made so far and optimistically hope he's the right hire for the team we have. We better hope so because Corral is his type of QB.  The next coaching staff, if Rhule/McAdoo fails, may not like him.

McAdoo not really a run heavy guy though and we probably won’t be built to do that except vs weak teams though.   The 4 teams in NY all finished bottom half each year and he has a higher pass ratio as a playcaller than  our offense to date under Rhule . 

we have made some good hires.  No doubt on that.  But some of it will be for waste if Rhule goes outside of whatever one year learning some can get out of it. 

But that essentially gets to my drum.  Tepper keeps managing it all wrong.  Marty should of left with Ron.  Rhule then married to a new GM.  He wasn’t.  Now Fitt isn’t married to Rhule.   So IMO, a lot of the revamped coaching is just prep for if things go south with Rhule quick next year.  Which has decent odds given Sam is still his QB and the schedule.  BOA was getting really bad last year before the Cam gimmick this front office pulled. But then you would bring in a new HC with the old GM.  GM thinks he has been building something for someone not here anymore. New HC will want and need a different roster.  So this whole season just smells of a predictably wasted year that delays building something. 

[Mr. Scot]

53 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't hate the hire because at least we have someone with actual NFL experience but I am also not delusional enough to start jumping for joy because it isn't like this dude is some wunderkind of an OC.

Pretty much.

I'm certainly hoping that McAdoo is going to be good but I'm definitely not about to guarantee it

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I didn't have an opinion because I assumed it would just be Rhule's buddy that was the interim OC. 

I don't hate the hire because at least we have someone with actual NFL experience but I am also not delusional enough to start jumping for joy because it isn't like this dude is some wunderkind of an OC.

Yeah the way I see it, McAdoo was the best we could do all things considered. Pep Hamilton wouldn’t even interview with us. McAdoo brings some successful experience to our staff. Campen, Wilks, and McAdoo appear to be upgrades and hopefully Rhule will listen to their advise. 

[CRA]

54 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pretty much.

I'm certainly hoping that McAdoo is going to be good but I'm definitely not about to guarantee it

and there are frankly just a handful of OCs that are really game changers at this level.  Overall, most look good or at least competent with a good QB…and then bad pending they have a bad QB. 

problem with Sam is he can turn a perfectly good play and playcall into a bad down. 

people keep talking about  Eli’s individual numbers vs the prior season and giving McAdoo credit.  Eli Manning simply acquired OBJ. And Eli Manning wasn’t a slouch.  Post McAdoo, old Eli posted his best completion % of his career and 4th most passing yards with Mike freaking Shula as OC.   He had a healthy Barkley and OBJ that year.  

 

 

[poundaway]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

and there are frankly just a handful of OCs that are really game changers at this level.  Overall, most look good or at least competent with a good QB…and then bad pending they have a bad QB. 

problem with Sam is he can turn a perfectly good play and playcall into a bad down. 

people keep talking about  Eli’s individual numbers vs the prior season and giving McAdoo credit.  Eli Manning simply acquired OBJ. And Eli Manning wasn’t a slouch.  Post McAdoo, old Eli posted his best completion % of his career and 4th most passing yards with Mike freaking Shula as OC.   He had a healthy Barkley and OBJ that year.  

 

 

Mike Shula didn't do the play calling in NY.