Does Rhule really think he has 5 years?

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

I said everything I needed to say in my last post. You can rearrange it any way you choose. You usually do.

You called Cam, CMC, Moore, Moton, Burns, Samuel, Jackson, Shaq, etc talentless.  That’s nonsense so I called you on it. 

 

[KSpan]

27 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Capers had a Supplemental Draft to go along with getting Collins at pick #2. Capers won with Collins, and lost a lot without him.

 

Fox had a decent team, then found Jake. Fox won a lot with Jake, and not so much without him.

 

Rivera had a decent team for Cam to lead. RR had Cam and had some success until Cam fell apart. No so many wins without him.

 

Rhule had no talent, and no QB. But you think that is the same situation. lol

Rhule had no talent, eh? CMC, DJ, Robbie, Samuel, Moton, Teddy (I'm no fan but he played better than Sam for sure), Burns, Brown, Chinn... it was more talent than Ron had in 2019 and, if coaching was indeed the issue, Rhule would have gotten them to better than the same record. 

2021 had a full year under their belts as coaches and Rhule-led moves and ended up regressing heavily throughout the season. If you think Rhule isn't/wasn't a major issue, I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion.

As I've said in other threads, if the team improves this year after a complete overhaul of the coaching staff and Fitterer having more influence in FA and the draft (admittedly a bit of speculation, but the offseason has sure been different this year vs the last 2 where Rhule was presented as the lead horse), the question is what does Rhule actually bring to the table relative to all those non-Rhule improvements? I bet you it's not much. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by KSpan

[iamhubby1]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

You called Cam, CMC, Moore, Moton, Burns, Samuel, Jackson, Shaq, etc talentless.  That’s nonsense so I called you on it. 

 

 

That is not what I said. You once again twisted my words to fit your stance. 

[poundaway]

41 minutes ago, CRA said:

But it just brings me back to what are waiting on Rhule to show at this level? 

This is a fair question. 

A more important question is, what is Tepper waiting for?

I think Tepper believes that  home Saints game last year is the future of the Panthers.  He discounts covid, the home field advantage and the Saints injuries and he believes we can be more like that team week in and week out.  Tepper believes we would have stayed that team if we weren't hit so hard by the injury bug.  He has pretty much said exactly that.

He's not entirely wrong.  I think had CMC, Horn and the OL stayed healthy, we would have won more games. 

We've made efforts to add depth at those positions.  I guess we'll see who's right.   

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, if we are stuck with existing staff I'd probably rather give Wilks another shot than McAdoo.

Would rather just open it up and let Fitterer and the FO make a hire. At the bare minimum if they fug that up royally, we can just get rid of Fitt and start that process again too.

Last year there would have been an obvious option in Brian Daboll. And of course I was a big fan of Nathaniel Hackett.

This year, I guess we'll have to see what names emerge.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

That is not what I said. You once again twisted my words to fit your stance. 

Your exact words 

“Rhule had no talent, and no QB”

Rhule inherited Cam, CMC, Moore, Moton, Burns, Jackson, Samuel, Shaq, etc.  So either he did inherit talent and your statement was nonsense….or you think those guys aren’t talented.  

[iamhubby1]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Rhule had no talent, eh? CMC, DJ, Robbie, Samuel, Moton, Teddy (I'm no fan but he played better than Sam for sure), Burns, Brown, Chinn... it was more talent than Ron had in 2019 and, if coaching was indeed the issue, Rhule would have gotten them to better than the same record. 

2021 had a full year under their belts as coaches and Rhule-led moves and ended up regressing heavily throughout the season. If you think Rhule isn't/wasn't a major issue, I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion.

As I've said in other threads, if the team improves this year after a complete overhaul of the coaching staff and Fitterer manning FA and the draft, the question is what does Rhule actually bring to the table relative to all those non-Rhule improvements? I bet you it's not much. 

 

Rhule didn't start with all that talent. He brought almost all of those guys in. But that's not the point I was making. 

 

Caper only won when Collins played.

Fox only won as long as good Jake was around.

RR only won win Cam was healthy.

Rhule hasn't won because he has yet to find his QB.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, poundaway said:

This is a fair question. 

A more important question is, what is Tepper waiting for?

I think Tepper believes that  home Saints game last year is the future of the Panthers.  He discounts covid, the home field advantage and the Saints injuries and he believes we can be more like that team week in and week out.  Tepper believes we would have stayed that team if we weren't hit so hard by the injury bug.  He has pretty much said exactly that.

He's not entirely wrong.  I think had CMC, Horn and the OL stayed healthy, we would have won more games. 

We've made efforts to add depth at those positions.  I guess we'll see who's right.   

I go back and forth on the CMC factor.  

we have seen a fully healthy CMC play lights out for an entire season (2019)….and it still only resulted in 5 wins when paired with weak QB play.   So does he really win us more games last year?  Or do we just have the best fantasy football player and it doesn’t actually translate to wins. 

[iamhubby1]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Your exact words 

“Rhule had no talent, and no QB”

Rhule inherited Cam, CMC, Moore, Moton, Burns, Jackson, Samuel, Shaq, etc.  So either he did inherit talent and your statement was nonsense….or you think those guys aren’t talented.  

 

It was widely held that when Rhule took over, this team had little talent. And no QB. Hard to win with that combination.

 

He has built a solid roster, but still, at this moment, has no QB. Going to be difficult to win under these circumstances.

I'm so sorry I was not more exact in my wording. 

[poundaway]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I go back and forth on the CMC factor.  

we have seen a fully healthy CMC play lights out for an entire season (2019)….and it still only resulted in 5 wins when paired with weak QB play.   So does he really win us more games last year?  Or do we just have the best fantasy football player and it doesn’t actually translate to wins. 

If it was just CMC, we could have that discussion, but after that Houston game, we were down Horn, 2 linemen, CMC and Arnold.

 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, poundaway said:

If it was just CMC, we could have that discussion, but after that Houston game, we were down Horn, 2 linemen, CMC and Arnold.

 

Horn kinda a wash given we rented Gilmore after he went down.  Who has way better than a rookie Horn would have been.  

but I do think Arnold was a dumb trade.  Not that Arnold is great.  But we lacked a quick pass option to the middle of the field after he left…..which was also a key aspect of the pass attack in 2020.    

we really neutered the O going from 2020 to 2021 IMO and that was by our front office.   Downgraded QB.  Downgraded the middle of the field pass options for the QB.  

I just don’t think it matters.  If you start Sam Darnold you are going to lose no matter what you do elsewhere.  And we did. 

[KSpan]

37 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

It was widely held that when Rhule took over, this team had little talent. And no QB. Hard to win with that combination.

 

He has built a solid roster, but still, at this moment, has no QB. Going to be difficult to win under these circumstances.

I'm so sorry I was not more exact in my wording. 

A lot of guys you're claiming Ron and Fox started with were brought in for their respective first seasons as well, so what does it matter who 'brought them in'? Bottom line is Rhule had talent in 2020 and more in 2021 and did jack with it; he was far from 'having no talent'.

Ron brought in talent too, so if anything that weakens your point because Ron brought in actual talent while Rhule brought in ex-Baylor and Temple players along with a milquetoast QB based on his poor understanding of how the NFL works. 

If you want to argue that a QB makes a big difference then fine, though the Teddy and Sam situations underscore his lack of understanding of NFL booth all and strategy, but claiming that Rhule had little to no talent is flat out incorrect. You could also argue that his 2021 roster really wasn't that much better than 2020 and that a lot of the moves share credit with Fitterer. Rhule has nothing definitive to hang his hat on that is a clear contribution from him, especially not the coaching and strategy (his primary job).

Edited May 15, 2022 by KSpan

[Sgt Schultz]

Back to the original question, whether Rhule thinks he has five years.  I don't have his house bugged to know, but he probably does since that is what Tepper told him and his statements since are consistent with that.

Things change.  My best guess is if he looks as lost this year as he did last, Jerry Glanville's quote may well apply:  "This isn't college, you're not at a homecoming. This is N-F-L, which stands for 'not for long' when you make them f*#!in' calls."

[poundaway]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Horn kinda a wash given we rented Gilmore after he went down.  Who has way better than a rookie Horn would have been.  

but I do think Arnold was a dumb trade.  Not that Arnold is great.  But we lacked a quick pass option to the middle of the field after he left…..which was also a key aspect of the pass attack in 2020.    

we really neutered the O going from 2020 to 2021 IMO and that was by our front office.   Downgraded QB.  Downgraded the middle of the field pass options for the QB.  

I just don’t think it matters.  If you start Sam Darnold you are going to lose no matter what you do elsewhere.  And we did. 

Stephon didn't show up until game 8 and then only played 59% of the snaps in the games he played.  

I agree Arnold for Henderson was a bad trade.  CJ needs to step it up, he looked BAD last year.

I agree that Teddy was a better QB than Sam.  He hid the deficiencies in the O and the OL with his quick release.  Sam's release time is ass.   Teddy had been in the O 3 years and he looked like crap the first time we saw him run it against Kyle Allen.

Teddy  was also in a better situation.
2020 Robbie > 2021 Robbie
Mike Davis >>>>rookie Chuba
Okung>Erving
Curtis Samuel>rookie Terrace Marshal

But Sam had an easier schedule (26th compared to 18th) and just looked bad overall. 

Trading for Sam was a huge mistake that they are desperately trying to fix.