Does Rhule really think he has 5 years?

[Sama8525]

Rhule hasn't shown he's a good coach yet, but he also hasn't shown he's a bad one. The media is hating on him, but the reality is this team was BAD and a fix wasn't 1-2 years away. The defense last year was one of the best. The offense let everyone down, specifically QB and Oline. Rhule made a good gamble at QB both times, neither worked out, but they were high ceiling low cost gambles. Same with the OC. The only actual mistakes was Irving's contract and darnolds 5th yr option. And I can chalk those up to well meaning optimism and live and learn.

He deserved one more year. Not a day longer but the Oline is fixed, so now we can see if he can coach. If he can't than fire him, but there has actually been significant progress and the hate he gets is unreasonable.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, poundaway said:

I very clearly asked,  who was Rhule's Steve Smith.    He went on some tangent rambling because he knows the answer. 

Rhule didn't have one.  Rhule didn't get the #1 pick, or half the talent that RR inherited.

I agree Rhule has sucked so far but it is fantasy to say RR inherited the same talent level Rhule did.  Its laughable.

 

Again, Capers, Fox, and Rivera.    

overall, all walked into bad spots.  I’m not the one trying to rank them.  Rhule is the only one who had no identity or direction after two years.   89 wasn’t the identity of what Carolina was doing down the Ron path and what he was building.  

 

[rayzor]

3 hours ago, poundaway said:

Some maybe.   Some vets may not want to go through a rebuild, some left for money, some just really loved RR.  My guess, is many didn't know much about Rhule.  Seems like a bunch of Rhule' players want to play for him and follow him, rather than the other way around.

You don't have to view every last thing as a  pro-Rhule / anti-Rhule.

Rhule has not performed as a head coach and if he was replaced tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear.  But he's our head coach atm and Tepper says he's staying.

RR inherited a vastly superior player and draft situation than Rhule.  People saying otherwise are just revising the past to fit their Rhule hatred.

And some are rewriting history to fit their narrative that Rhule isn't as bad as he has proven himself to be.

[CRA]

End of year 2 (final quarter of the season)

Capers: 3-1 as they went into the postseason 

Fox:  3-1 as they went into the postseason 

Rivera: 4-0 

Rhule: 0-4 (finishing off a 7 game losing streak) 

One of these things is unlike the others. 
 

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

@The Huddler I get what you are saying and for the most part I think he'll be better this season and show some progress.

However, if this team, with all the talent we have, doesn't improve over the course of the season.  I think it is time to move on.  

Last season was the first season since before Fox that our 2nd year coach didn't improve from the 1st year.  I would venture to say that 2021 was worse than 2020.  I thought Rhule lost the locker room last year and if he loses it again.  He's done. 

That said I would like to see us retain everyone else but Rhule.  I would move McAdoo to HC and have him select a OC that closely goes by his offensive scheme.   Fitterer has built this team to run the ball, McAdoo's style of offense.  Moving on from that concept will only put us another year or two in the dumps. 

I am pulling for Rhule to show that he's what we thought he would be when we hired him  I want him to succeed and build Carolina into a playoff contender every season.

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, Sama8525 said:

Rhule hasn't shown he's a good coach yet, but he also hasn't shown he's a bad one. 

I'd call being beaten by some of the worst teams in the league, guys that wound up fired, is pretty solid evidence that he's bad.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd call being beaten by some of the worst teams in the league, guys that wound up fired, is pretty solid evidence that he's bad.

I mean, I still think his college resume is greatly overblown too.  

a lot of really great college coaches just don’t work at the next level.  GOATs of collegiate eras we are talking about.  

But Rhule was never a top tier college coach.   He wasn’t known for innovation, offense or really anything of note. And he didn’t dominate small time college ball either.    Somehow this program builder mantra started….but I don’t think Rhule is a noteworthy program builder in college football.   Taking a team that is bad and making them respectable is an accomplishment.  He did do that.   But he didn’t hang around long and he never really made them anything outside of respectable.

[Sgt Schultz]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, I still think his college resume is greatly overblown too.  

a lot of really great college coaches just don’t work at the next level.  GOATs of collegiate eras we are talking about.  

But Rhule was never a top tier college coach.   And he didn’t dominate small time college ball either.  

One would think that would make him less married to his own system and schemes than the elite college coaches that tried their hand at the NFL.  The jury is still out on that, but the deliberations are not going well.  I hope the coaching changes can turn that tide.

From my perch, Rhule did inherit a worse situation than Rivera, for the simple reason that JR’s stubbornness in firing Fox caused the team to hit rock bottom in Fox’s last.  Rivera started from rock bottom and had to build from there.  Due to purging Hurney's salary cap misadventure, this team should have bottomed out in Rhule’s first year.  I say should have because they may have hit rock bottom in his second, even though they arguably had more talent on the roster.

None of us thought 2020 was going to be anything good.  Even winning 5 games surpassed expectations.  But, we looked worse in year two than year one.  Not simply worse, but lost.  Rhule looked like 6 feet of man in 13 feet of water.  That put us a year behind. 

IF the OL gels, the defense continues on its upward trend, our players entering their third year realize the promise they showed in their first, and Horn recovered from his injury and can stay on the field, this can be a decent team.

My concern about Rhule leading that improvement is that his biggest sin last year was that he did not put players into positions to succeed.  He looked exactly like a college coach who believes his system was going to magically provide results, despite the fact that much of his thinking is contrary to what successful NFL coaches have done.  Guys like Hoodie find ways to alter their schemes to get the most out of the players they have.  Failed college coaches consistently try to shoe-horn players into their schemes, whether they fit or not.

We'll see what Rhule is this year.  If he shows the improvement this year that we think should have happened last year, he survives to year four.  But, if he looks lost again, maybe the NFL just isn’t his game.  There is no shame in that, Saban, Petrino, Kelly, Butch Davis, Erickson, Spurrier, and years ago, Holtz all came to that same conclusion, among others. 

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, I still think his college resume is greatly overblown too.  

a lot of really great college coaches just don’t work at the next level.  GOATs of collegiate eras we are talking about.  

But Rhule was never a top tier college coach.   He wasn’t known for innovation, offense or really anything of note. And he didn’t dominate small time college ball either.    Somehow this program builder mantra started….but I don’t think Rhule is a noteworthy program builder in college football.   Taking a team that is bad and making them respectable is an accomplishment.  He did do that.   But he didn’t hang around long and he never really made them anything outside of respectable.

His college resumé was basically "make a team better and move on". But "better" generally only involved the regular season.

Bowl victories? Championship seasons? Not so much.

Rhule was pretty heavily inflated by the media. Unfortunately, Marty and Dave fell for that and his salesmanship.

(plus meatballs)

[YourLastThought]

3 hours ago, The Huddler said:

 

 

This you bro?

 

Guaranteed it's a closer representation to you and I would be willing to put money on it. I can dig up random nerds on Google as well but I will just ask again... When are you posting up pics of yourself "bro"?  It might take you a bit to respond today as I'm sure you are bench pressing at the gym right after you drag race your Lambo around your mansion grounds. Don't let us bother you though Hercules. 

 

This you bro?

 

 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

One would think that would make him less married to his own system and schemes than the elite college coaches that tried their hand at the NFL.  The jury is still out on that, but the deliberations are not going well.  I hope the coaching changes can turn that tide.

From my perch, Rhule did inherit a worse situation than Rivera, for the simple reason that JR’s stubbornness in firing Fox caused the team to hit rock bottom in Fox’s last.  Rivera started from rock bottom and had to build from there.  Due to purging Hurney's salary cap misadventure, this team should have bottomed out in Rhule’s first year.  I say should have because they may have hit rock bottom in his second, even though they arguably had more talent on the roster.

None of us thought 2020 was going to be anything good.  Even winning 5 games surpassed expectations.  But, we looked worse in year two than year one.  Not simply worse, but lost.  Rhule looked like 6 feet of man in 13 feet of water.  That put us a year behind. 

IF the OL gels, the defense continues on its upward trend, our players entering their third year realize the promise they showed in their first, and Horn recovered from his injury and can stay on the field, this can be a decent team.

My concern about Rhule leading that improvement is that his biggest sin last year was that he did not put players into positions to succeed.  He looked exactly like a college coach who believes his system was going to magically provide results, despite the fact that much of his thinking is contrary to what successful NFL coaches have done.  Guys like Hoodie find ways to alter their schemes to get the most out of the players they have.  Failed college coaches consistently try to shoe-horn players into their schemes, whether they fit or not.

We'll see what Rhule is this year.  If he shows the improvement this year that we think should have happened last year, he survives to year four.  But, if he looks lost again, maybe the NFL just isn’t his game.  There is no shame in that, Saban, Petrino, Kelly, Butch Davis, Erickson, Spurrier, and years ago, Holtz all came to that same conclusion, among others. 

Maybe Ron did inherit a slightly better mess.  That’s not really the point.  Singling out Ron.  . Capers, Fox and Ron all inherited comparable messes…..and weren’t jokes at the conclusion of year 2.   There was something being built.  Direction.  Improvement.   Belief.  

and I do agree that Rhule wouldn’t be married into a mindset like a Spurrier, Kelly, etc.   I mean there innovation is what got them the jobs though and to see them give it a whirl at the next level.    So I don’t think they compare well to Rhule. 

But it just brings me back to what are waiting on Rhule to show at this level?  What’s the NFL equivalent of his college success?   

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

@The Huddler I get what you are saying and for the most part I think he'll be better this season and show some progress.

However, if this team, with all the talent we have, doesn't improve over the course of the season.  I think it is time to move on.  

Last season was the first season since before Fox that our 2nd year coach didn't improve from the 1st year.  I would venture to say that 2021 was worse than 2020.  I thought Rhule lost the locker room last year and if he loses it again.  He's done. 

That said I would like to see us retain everyone else but Rhule.  I would move McAdoo to HC and have him select a OC that closely goes by his offensive scheme.   Fitterer has built this team to run the ball, McAdoo's style of offense.  Moving on from that concept will only put us another year or two in the dumps. 

I am pulling for Rhule to show that he's what we thought he would be when we hired him  I want him to succeed and build Carolina into a playoff contender every season.

Might want to look at McAdoo's HC track record. I am okay with him as an interim if we fire Rhule mid-season. Outside of that, it's very likely just another hiring blunder.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Might want to look at McAdoo's HC track record. I am okay with him as an interim if we fire Rhule mid-season. Outside of that, it's very likely just another hiring blunder.

Sometimes a change of scenery works.  It wouldn't be the first time a HC failed his first time out and later went on to success.  

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Might want to look at McAdoo's HC track record. I am okay with him as an interim if we fire Rhule mid-season. Outside of that, it's very likely just another hiring blunder.

I'm not especially interested in McAdoo as a head coach.

There'll certainly be candidates this year. Heck, the Packers OC might be one of them again.