2022 Pass Protection Expectations

[shaq]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

How can people buy into this myth? Go back and watch Darnold. A lot of his worst play comes when he has good protection and time to survey the field. He plays well when his first read is open or when he's forced to dump it off to his checkdown due to immediate pressure. Sam with time to survey the field against decent coverage is usually a recipe for disaster. Better protection isn't going to fix his issues. He just doesn't see the field like a QB needs to.

Dude I was posing a hypothetical situation I legit said imagine, I by no means am saying he will breakout but to act like it’s impossible is just as wrong. Not even trying to be a homer I’m just posing that there is a situation where Darnold shows enough for another team where they would sign him to a deal netting us in return a comp pick. Also I think his tendencies to rush reads and force throws is 10x worse when he faces consistent pressure, like his pocket presence with pressure is poo but non pressured throws he is probably around the 25th best qb in the league. 

[Smithers]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

How can people buy into this myth? Go back and watch Darnold. A lot of his worst play comes when he has good protection and time to survey the field. He plays well when his first read is open or when he's forced to dump it off to his checkdown due to immediate pressure. Sam with time to survey the field against decent coverage is usually a recipe for disaster. Better protection isn't going to fix his issues. He just doesn't see the field like a QB needs to.

I’m sorry but the sample size of throws with a clean pocket is too small to make any assumptions.  And it never takes into account the situational aspects of that play.  For example, Darnold might have a clean pocket on 3rd and 20.  A nearly impossible down and distance to compete.  Yet he’s punished because he allegedly had a clean pocket while the defense dropped 8 into coverage and he had to force something in an attempt to convert the play.  Too many variables and not enough of a sample size.  

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Smithers said:

I’m sorry but the sample size of throws with a clean pocket is too small to make any assumptions.  And it never takes into account the situational aspects of that play.  For example, Darnold might have a clean pocket on 3rd and 20.  A nearly impossible down and distance to compete.  Yet he’s punished because he allegedly had a clean pocket while the defense dropped 8 into coverage and he had to force something in an attempt to convert the play.  Too many variables and not enough of a sample size.  

That clip was on 1st and 10. The very first offensive play of the game. 

The guy has four years of starting experience. There's plenty of sample size.

Survey says... he sucks.

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, Smithers said:

I’m sorry but the sample size of throws with a clean pocket is too small to make any assumptions.  And it never takes into account the situational aspects of that play.  For example, Darnold might have a clean pocket on 3rd and 20.  A nearly impossible down and distance to compete.  Yet he’s punished because he allegedly had a clean pocket while the defense dropped 8 into coverage and he had to force something in an attempt to convert the play.  Too many variables and not enough of a sample size.  

You realize that this has been a career thing? It's not just based off his time as a Panther. 

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/19/panthers-sam-darnold-red-zone-clean-pocket-numbers-troubling/

 

[Smithers]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That clip was on 1st and 10. The very first offensive play of the game. 

The guy has four years of starting experience. There's plenty of sample size.

Survey says... he sucks.

 

That clip.  As in singular.  
 

Our offense was historically bad last year.  Receivers couldn’t get separation.  No creativity.  Defenses knew what we were doing before we did it.  
 

Sam may very well suck.  But he might also elevate to average behind a consistently good OL with a real NFL OC.  Who knows.  I’m still routing for Matt Corral being our future.  

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Smithers said:

That clip.  As in singular.  
 

Our offense was historically bad last year.  Receivers couldn’t get separation.  No creativity.  Defenses knew what we were doing before we did it.  
 

Sam may very well suck.  But he might also elevate to average behind a consistently good OL with a real NFL OC.  Who knows.  I’m still routing for Matt Corral being our future.  

There's been a four year trend of teams with Darnold as their starting QB having a terrible offense.

Our offense had to completely change because of Darnold's limitations. We had no problem moving the ball with Teddy previously. I honestly think Darnold didn't play in the preseason because once the staff actually got a chance to work with him they realized they were basically going to have to try to run a HS offense in the NFL so they had to hide him as long as possible.

[Smithers]

1 hour ago, shaq said:

Dude I was posing a hypothetical situation I legit said imagine, I by no means am saying he will breakout but to act like it’s impossible is just as wrong. Not even trying to be a homer I’m just posing that there is a situation where Darnold shows enough for another team where they would sign him to a deal netting us in return a comp pick. Also I think his tendencies to rush reads and force throws is 10x worse when he faces consistent pressure, like his pocket presence with pressure is poo but non pressured throws he is probably around the 25th best qb in the league. 

He did the same on my hypothetical post as well.  It’s how he is.  He’s depressed that Sam Howell isn’t a Panther and has acknowledged several times that he is not a true Follower of the team anymore.  Yet he is still here being critical of everything everyone writes.  

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Smithers said:

He did the same on my hypothetical post as well.  It’s how he is.  He’s depressed that Sam Howell isn’t a Panther and has acknowledged several times that he is not a true Follower of the team anymore.  Yet he is still here being critical of everything everyone writes.  

We're talking football. You're just sensitive and limited in the same fashion as Sam Darnold. 

[Smithers]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We're talking football. You're just sensitive and limited in the same fashion as Sam Darnold. 

Limited in the same fashion as Sam Darnold?  Not sure what that even means.  Limited as in I’m only able to be a career backup in the NFL after making tens of millions?  I wish.  Limited as in intelligence?  I’m a pretty smart dude, as is Sam, so ok I’ll accept that.  
 

Anyways, back to football.  Our offense under Teddy was in the bottom third of the NFL.  Cam also looked awful in Brady’s system.  Maybe Sam is eternally destined to be a bust and career backup.  Maybe not.  I have no clue, and 49 games (all of which took place on very bad football teams) certainly is not a great sample size.  I don’t think his ceiling is very high, but I do think he can be an average QB.  If not, then he is likely done in this league as a fringe starter.  

[LinvilleGorge]

We passed for 649 fewer yards in '21 despite having a 17th game. That's a differential of 40 yards per game. That's the difference between being the #1 passing offense in football and being the #10 passing offense in football.

Darnold sucks.

[MechaZain]

2 hours ago, Shotgun said:

Good QBs   can still make plays behind bad Olines. Newton and Wilson come to mind. Darnold with all pro lineman at every position would still be a back up level player and a poor one at that.

Cam's not a good comparison in this argument because while he was talented enough to overcome it more often than Darnold, the lack of trust in his line clearly stunted dude as a passer. I don't think you can gleam much cherry picking clean pockets when it's collapsed on these guys 9 times out of 10 since they entered the league.

Darnold (and Cam both) might be just broken beyond repair at this point but I'd like to see how they'd fare with actual confidence in their protection.

 

 

 

[Luciu5]

Y'all Darnold supporters need to explain Joe Burrow then. Year one, gets his leg ripped off. Year two, takes the most sacks in the league. Also year two, takes his team to the Super Bowl. Why is Darnold not playing like Burrow is, though they are in similar situations protection wise?

[Icege]

Sam Darnold is what happens when teams insist on swinging on a QB in the top 5 simply because it's a position of need.

Thank goodness the Panthers didn't follow that train of thought.

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Sam Darnold is what happens when teams insist on swinging on a QB in the top 5 simply because it's a position of need.

Thank goodness the Panthers didn't follow that train of thought.

I dunno man, Darnold to me seems like a guy that just didn't transition and develop as people hoped. He was a fine college prospect, he has the physical tools.  But he just never made that jump.  Its hard to know if a guy will or not, and he wasn't the only QB from that class to massively disappoint. 

Darnold was the same guy he was in college, but plenty of guys develop / are coached up to be much better. That's what you count on when you draft someone - them developing to a ceiling, vs sitting where they are.

I agree though with the second half - luckily we didn't really reach for a QB ... now, we go into this season with a vastly improved OL, a lot of excitement over a young QB prospect, and (imo most importantly, since I'm not high on Rhule) having both our first and second rounders.

Edited May 7, 2022 by mav1234