2022 Pass Protection Expectations

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I dunno man, Darnold to me seems like a guy that just didn't transition and develop as people hoped. He was a fine college prospect, he has the physical tools.  But he just never made that jump.  Its hard to know if a guy will or not, and he wasn't the only QB from that class to massively disappoint. 

Darnold was the same guy he was in college, but plenty of guys develop / are coached up to be much better. 

Luckily we didn't really reach for a QB and go into this season with a vastly improved OL, a lot of excitement over a young QB prospect, and (imo most importantly, since I'm not high on Rhule) having both our first and second rounders.

I can understand that perspective. He definitely had the physical tools, but I don't think he sees the game as a QB (nor does he love it enough to learn how to). I expect him to show flashes (a.k.a. the "magic" in his game), but ultimately I expect him to not be able to maintain it. That's unfortunately been a constant throughout his career.

[Aussie Tank]

If we believe Corral is the future let’s try and trade Darnold for Jimmy G. Matt will learn a lot more by watching Jimmy than Sam IMO 

[mav1234]

Just now, Icege said:

I can understand that perspective. He definitely had the physical tools, but I don't think he sees the game as a QB (nor does he love it enough to learn how to). I expect him to show flashes (a.k.a. the "magic" in his game), but ultimately I expect him to not be able to maintain it. That's unfortunately been a constant throughout his career.

Yeah I agree with basically all that. Hard to say if he loves the game - he is supposedly a good teammate, puts in the time, and does care about his play... its just the reality that doesn't always translate for people.  But consistency?? It just isn't there for him in the pros. It is disappointing because even last season we'd see glimpses, but that just isn't enough.  

Frankly I think he hasn't ever had good coaching and I think its just too late for him now. He's done. Too much garbage between his ears, can't get out of his own way.  The times he plays best are those magic moments where he's reacting, instead of thinking. That's not great tbh, and he just sucks when he has time because he can't read coverage for crap anymore.

I don't like talking poorly about any Panthers players, but I'm honestly glad we have some other option than Darnold and PJ.

[ForJimmy]

The funny this is Miami actually had a worse OL than we did last season. Both their QBs looked significantly better behind a worse OL than Sam and neither has shown to be anything special so far. Average QBs can still make SOME plays behind bad OLs and show some potential. Darnold was bottom of the league awful. It doesn’t matter how the pocket was, if the first read wasn’t open then you know the play is going to poo with him. He was a LB learning to play QB in high school and has never fully picked up on how to read defenses and it doesn’t look like he ever will. 

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Yeah I agree with basically all that. Hard to say if he loves the game - he is supposedly a good teammate, puts in the time, and does care about his play... its just the reality that doesn't always translate for people.  But consistency?? It just isn't there for him in the pros. It is disappointing because even last season we'd see glimpses, but that just isn't enough.  

Frankly I think he hasn't ever had good coaching and I think its just too late for him now. He's done. Too much garbage between his ears, can't get out of his own way.  The times he plays best are those magic moments where he's reacting, instead of thinking. That's not great tbh, and he just sucks when he has time because he can't read coverage for crap anymore.

I don't like talking poorly about any Panthers players, but I'm honestly glad we have some other option than Darnold and PJ.

Got curious about the QB coaching he's had since HS and took a quick peek:

• Marques Tuiasosopo - Former Univ of Washington QB, 2001 Rose Bowl MVP. Currently at Rice. Was Sam's QB coach his first season at USC.
• Tyson Helton - Passing game coordinator + QB coach at USC for Sam's final two seasons. Current head coach for Western Kentucky where his OC is Tee Martin, who was also Sam's OC at USC. Western Kentucky was where 2022 QB prospect Bailey Zappe played.
• Jeremy Bates - Sam's first NFL OC. Hasn't had any work since then.
• Dowell Loggains - Current TE coach for Arkansas, was Sam's QB coach & OC during Adam Gase's tenure. Apparently was the QB coach for CLE and campaigned for them to draft Johnny Manziel.
• Sean Ryan - QB coach with the Panthers.

While Dowell Loggains and Jeremy Bates are probably not the best way to welcome rookies to the league, he had some decent coaching during the 2017 + 2018 USC football seasons. From what we have seen from QBs under Sean Ryan's watch, I'm not exactly impressed.

Sam definitely got dealt a poo hand in the NFL, but he also hasn't really shown much aside from when everything falls apart he seems to have a horseshoe lodged somewhere.

[mav1234]

19 minutes ago, Icege said:

Got curious about the QB coaching he's had since HS and took a quick peek:

• Marques Tuiasosopo - Former Univ of Washington QB, 2001 Rose Bowl MVP. Currently at Rice. Was Sam's QB coach his first season at USC.
• Tyson Helton - Passing game coordinator + QB coach at USC for Sam's final two seasons. Current head coach for Western Kentucky where his OC is Tee Martin, who was also Sam's OC at USC. Western Kentucky was where 2022 QB prospect Bailey Zappe played.
• Jeremy Bates - Sam's first NFL OC. Hasn't had any work since then.
• Dowell Loggains - Current TE coach for Arkansas, was Sam's QB coach & OC during Adam Gase's tenure. Apparently was the QB coach for CLE and campaigned for them to draft Johnny Manziel.
• Sean Ryan - QB coach with the Panthers.

While Dowell Loggains and Jeremy Bates are probably not the best way to welcome rookies to the league, he had some decent coaching during the 2017 + 2018 USC football seasons. From what we have seen from QBs under Sean Ryan's watch, I'm not exactly impressed.

Sam definitely got dealt a poo hand in the NFL, but he also hasn't really shown much aside from when everything falls apart he seems to have a horseshoe lodged somewhere.

yeah for sure. He had his opportunities, even if he wasn't helped. I don't think he has a future as a franchise leader, which is all, ultimately, that matters.

FWIW, his USC coaches were decent so it makes sense he'd have had success there. But I just don't think he was helped at NYJ or here.  I still think he would have found a way to succeed, or at least show us much more, if he was going to. He just doesn't have it.

edit: also good bit of research there. I think it does make clear how fuging terrible his NFL coaching has been, hahaha. Certainly good college coaching, and maybe that's the only reason he looked good in college.

Edited May 8, 2022 by mav1234

[Catsfan69]

6 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sounds good in theory, but reality doesn't match. This is what happens far too often when Darnold has time. He isn't pressured in the least. The panic is all in his head. It was his first snap of the game in week 6. Not like he'd been getting the hell best out of him all day or all season at this point.

 

Do you see anyone open?

[panthers55]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Before we get all excited about our projected OL, please keep in mind that the guy making the decisions on who starts is the one that willingly started Pat Elflien and Cam Erving for most of last season. 

I know he has more football knowledgeable people in the building now but he may not listen to them. We hope he does, but that remains to be seen.

That is pretty naive to think that individual player time is determined by the head coach.  Coordinators and position coaches make those decisions as well as rotational decisions during the game.. Head coaches have to explain it so they get credit good and bad. Campen and McAdoo will be making the decisions this year about the offense and line play. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Catsfan69 said:

Do you see anyone open?

Listen to the commentator. He has to know when to throw the ball away. Hell he could even run for a few yards because he had so much time. Forcing a ball into a INT on the first play sets a terrible tone for the whole game. 

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Do you see anyone open?

There's only one receiver in the frame of the video. 

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Listen to the commentator. He has to know when to throw the ball away. Hell he could even run for a few yards because he had so much time. Forcing a ball into a INT on the first play sets a terrible tone for the whole game. 

This. There was no pressure on him. Run or throw it in the stands.

[kungfoodude]

59 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

That is pretty naive to think that individual player time is determined by the head coach.  Coordinators and position coaches make those decisions as well as rotational decisions during the game.. Head coaches have to explain it so they get credit good and bad. Campen and McAdoo will be making the decisions this year about the offense and line play. 

Not sure you are terribly familiar with our head coach. The guy well known for micromanagement.

 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Not sure you are terribly familiar with our head coach. The guy well known for micromanagement.

 

Not sure why you keep living in the past. This is now.  

[MasterAwesome]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We passed for 649 fewer yards in '21 despite having a 17th game. That's a differential of 40 yards per game. That's the difference between being the #1 passing offense in football and being the #10 passing offense in football.

Darnold sucks.

Your conclusion is correct but your premise is terrible. Cam started 5 of those games for us last season and averaged an abysmal 135 YPG passing, compared to Darnold’s 210 YPG in his starts.