Let's talk about our Defense

[PootieNunu]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:29 AM, poundaway said:

At the end of the season our D was:
2nd best in yards allowed
3rd best in yards allowed  per play
4th best in first downs allowed
4th best in passes allowed
4th best in passing yards allowed
2nd best in passing first downs allowed
This one surprised me:   8th best in RUSHING yards allowed per attempt

We lost Reddick.   YGM's stats extrapolated looks similar to Burns, so I don't know how big a drop off we're going to see here. 

As for the big left side runs  that hurt us, Burns needs to up his run D, and Page is gone.  Damien Wilson, who started 16 games when the Chiefs won the superbowl appears to be slotted there.  He is a step up, definitely, from Page.  Wilson has some legal issues at the moment.  Brandon Smith is a raw rookie with elite speed may see the field more than originally planned. 


Meanwhile our offense was:
32nd in yards per play
31st in turnovers
29th in points
29th in 3rd down conversions
Helping our O should help the D.  We have a new experienced and previously successful OC, 3 new linemen, a new bruising RB,  and new rookie QB with the quickest release in the class and rated #1 in the class by our OC and some other draftniks.

 

All this is great, but we were 20th in points allowed per game. 

The offense probably skewed that some because they sucked so bad, but still. 

[poundaway]

5 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

All this is great, but we were 20th in points allowed per game. 

The offense probably skewed that some because they sucked so bad, but still. 

Our offense was 31st in offensive turnovers and 30th in total yards and our punting was average... so starting field position for the D was ass.   Its hard to stop points when they are a short distance from FG range.   We gave up 32 FGs  to 42 TDs.  So they stopped the TD nearly 40% of the time.

Does anyone know where to find average starting field position?

[year of the snitch]

fug stats. our guys got their assess handed to them when things get tough, when the game was on the line, when they're tired. there's no energy or alpha males out there.

I wanna know who is going to rip someones wang off in the 4th quarter when we need a stop or it's blouses.

[trueblade]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:18 PM, poundaway said:

The Bengals were ranked 17th in points?  Did their D suck?  Their D is what carried them in the playoffs.

The Bengals finished as Top 10 in points scored, and  top 10 in passing yards/game. Their defense was ranked 18th in the same category where the Panthers finished 2nd (yards/game)

That sounds more like a team led by it's offense with Burrow, Chase, Mixon and some combination of Higgins/Boyd than one carried by it's defense.

[poundaway]

2 hours ago, trueblade said:

The Bengals finished as Top 10 in points scored,

No.  No they didn't.  They were 17th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

[trueblade]

5 hours ago, poundaway said:

No.  No they didn't.  They were 17th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

That's a link to team defense. What I was saying was that the Bengals Offense finished Top 10 in points scored: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/#all_team_stats

The premise that I was arguing was your statement that "Their D [referring to the Bengals] is what carried them in the playoffs."

By showing their offense was top 10 in points scored (and passing yards per game), combined with a 17th ranked defense in yards allowed,  I provided evidence that their offense, and not their defense was their catalyst.

[SetfreexX]

Considering the hybrid nature of our front as I think we continue to see more two points stances on the edges, we have an opportunity to still be ''good'' on defense. Most of Reddick's production was from some isolated performances as far as the sacks are concerned, similar to his 5 vs NYG his last year in ARI. So his final stat line has to be understood in context, hell of a guy to lose, but is ''replaceable'' even if by committee. 

YGM / Haynes / Barno - all have skill sets we know work / in Barno's case can translate to the NFL. Barno is the same physical comp as Burns off the edge in pass rushing downs and is equally athletic. YGM / Haynes have shown the ability to produce when their number is called, it stands to reason more opportunity means an increase in that production. 

I think our secondary is better, Gilmore was on a pitch count, and played well but was not ''the reason'' our defense was good. Horn looked the part up to injury (Week 3), Henderson with camp under his belt stands to improve, and DJ is a good corner. We also have improved at Safety with the addition of Xavier Woods, which allows Chinn to be the move safety where he's in the box, out of the box, etc. In general the secondary depth is honestly fairly deep. 

Brown and Ioannidis are as good a starting duo as most teams can claim aside from the likes of (PHI / WAS) I think another proven veteran could help them, but Roy, Nixon, and Hoskins all showed they could hold up.

As far as off-ball LBer's we FINALLY added some athleticism to pair with Shaq, both Littleton, and Wilson are upgrades over Carter, and adding in Smith who will have the opportunity to learn behind that group is huge. Luvu has an all day motor so I expect to see him flash just like last year. 

All in all the only loss was Reddick, and IMO we have been able to add to the roster to account for that. I can't count Gilmore as a loss as he joined right before the deadline, was on PUP, and was spot duty for the time he did play. 

 

[poundaway]

2 hours ago, trueblade said:

That's a link to team defense. What I was saying was that the Bengals Offense finished Top 10 in points scored: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/#all_team_stats

The premise that I was arguing was your statement that "Their D [referring to the Bengals] is what carried them in the playoffs."

By showing their offense was top 10 in points scored (and passing yards per game), combined with a 17th ranked defense in yards allowed,  I provided evidence that their offense, and not their defense was their catalyst.

OK  We were discussing whether D's points allowed was the only measure of a D.  It is an important measure just not the complete picture, especially when you are as lopsided as we were. 

As for my statement on the D in the playoffs.

In the playoffs, KC scored 47 against NE, 42 against Buffalo, but only 24 against Cincinnati.    Tennessee averaged 24 points a game during regular season, Cincinnati held them to 16 points in the playoffs.  In SB, Cincinnati led the whole game holding the Rams to 16 points until 4 minutes left in the 4th quarter. 

Its true that Cincinnati's O was top 10 during the regular season.  But in the playoffs, it was their D that got them to  and kept them in the SB where they held the Rams to 23 points.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by poundaway

[poundaway]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

Considering the hybrid nature of our front as I think we continue to see more two points stances on the edges, we have an opportunity to still be ''good'' on defense. Most of Reddick's production was from some isolated performances as far as the sacks are concerned, similar to his 5 vs NYG his last year in ARI. So his final stat line has to be understood in context, hell of a guy to lose, but is ''replaceable'' even if by committee. 

YGM / Haynes / Barno - all have skill sets we know work / in Barno's case can translate to the NFL. Barno is the same physical comp as Burns off the edge in pass rushing downs and is equally athletic. YGM / Haynes have shown the ability to produce when their number is called, it stands to reason more opportunity means an increase in that production. 

I think our secondary is better, Gilmore was on a pitch count, and played well but was not ''the reason'' our defense was good. Horn looked the part up to injury (Week 3), Henderson with camp under his belt stands to improve, and DJ is a good corner. We also have improved at Safety with the addition of Xavier Woods, which allows Chinn to be the move safety where he's in the box, out of the box, etc. In general the secondary depth is honestly fairly deep. 

Brown and Ioannidis are as good a starting duo as most teams can claim aside from the likes of (PHI / WAS) I think another proven veteran could help them, but Roy, Nixon, and Hoskins all showed they could hold up.

As far as off-ball LBer's we FINALLY added some athleticism to pair with Shaq, both Littleton, and Wilson are upgrades over Carter, and adding in Smith who will have the opportunity to learn behind that group is huge. Luvu has an all day motor so I expect to see him flash just like last year. 

All in all the only loss was Reddick, and IMO we have been able to add to the roster to account for that. I can't count Gilmore as a loss as he joined right before the deadline, was on PUP, and was spot duty for the time he did play. 

 

Great post.  I'm not sure that what we've added that will account for Reddick though.  YGM, though good, does not produce the pressure on passing downs that Reddick does and I don't think the rookie Barno is going to be the answer this year.

[RJK]

Watching Brandon Smith highlights and I get a bigger Jeremy chinn vibes before the coaching staff neutered him and put him at safety. When he makes the right read and hits it he looks faster than anyone on offense at times