Does Matt Rhule develop players?

[glenwo2]

9 hours ago, Cam's New Arm said:

First of all, friendo, please don't make someone work so hard to reply to you. Quote people, please. Don't @ them. I have no idea what I said an hour ago, let alone however long ago you were.

Secondly, what did I say? lol

it's not what you said.   It's what you did.   Giving me a poo for what?  For saying that Rhule gives out Migraines?

Is he a relative of yours?

[Snake]

9 hours ago, CRA said:

Yeah, as I said before the hire I ideally want an offensive HC and one that can basically take over if it isn’t up to par.   Ron was close to a being the polar opposite and did it on the defensive side.  

Rhule’s coaching career leading up to HC was basically to dabble in everything.  Jack of all trades, master of none.  Which in theory I guess is a good one to build a great resume to oversee a team. 

Some of the best coaches have coached both sides but specialize in one. I mean it goes beyond that and being a successful NFL head coach is insanely hard and really depends on your evaluation of coaches around you. Rhule hasn't imo been great at that either. He believes his system is superior and I'm not convinced. 

[poundaway]

19 hours ago, Waldo said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

Says 21 for 2021. I get your point but we were not a top 10 D by the end of the year. 

Snow is a solid DC for sure. A little DB crazed but solid unit. Plus add in the failed 2019 D switch that basically left our D to be rebuilt from ashes in 2020. 

We were second in total yards allowed, yes, even at the end of the year and without Horn.  It isn't the perfect measurement, but it is an important one.  Field position matters.   The defense was on the field substantially more than the O because the O would have a 3 and out, int or fumble, and still we were second in yards allowed.  We were 4th in 1st downs allowed.    Yes, total points is the only measure that matters but it doesn't tell the full story.  None of them do.

Say what you want, but when you look at the TOTAL DISASTER RR and Hurney left behind, it is a radical improvement to the year before where we were nearly 4 games without forcing a punt and were in the bottom half or 3rd in most categories.

 

[Waldo]

11 minutes ago, poundaway said:

We were second in total yards allowed, yes, even at the end of the year and without Horn.  It isn't the perfect measurement, but it is an important one.  Field position matters.   The defense was on the field substantially more than the O because the O would have a 3 and out, int or fumble, and still we were second in yards allowed.  We were 4th in 1st downs allowed.    Yes, total points is the only measure that matters but it doesn't tell the full story.  None of them do.

Say what you want, but when you look at the TOTAL DISASTER RR and Hurney left behind, it is a radical improvement to the year before where we were nearly 4 games without forcing a punt and were in the bottom half or 3rd in most categories.

 

We were the top team in points allowed in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL or last team in the 2/3 of the NFL. We also gave up terrible field position. The top 10 D does not stand, that is fair given what we both said. It could be  soon but the entire point of a defense is to stop the other team from scoring, not to allow less yards at the end of the day even if the stat really does matter in the total evaluation. There are some big positives on the D but saying it was a top 10 D is very misleading. That is fair not BS or hope or hype. 

Nothing I said is an wrong or even really negative unless that naritive this was a top 10 D really matters to you for some reason. Some good, some bad and we saw some improvements and some not improvements (Chinn at FS comes to mind). We are used to having good to great Ds and 2021 wasn't comparable to our top D even with the upside it showed throughout the year.

Lol Hurney helped build an all D draft that is a huge chunk of this D by the way...and I despise Hurney. So my point stands and you are trying to deflect to Hurney about how this crew did last year after drafting D in the 1st and a new GM...So still not Hurney's fault in 2021 and still not a top 10 D unless you are talking in yards allowed. 

[poundaway]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

We were the top team in points allowed in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL or last team in the 2/3 of the NFL. We also gave up terrible field position. The top 10 D does not stand, that is fair given what we both said. It could be  soon but the entire point of a defense is to stop the other team from scoring, not to allow less yards at the end of the day even if the stat really does matter in the total evaluation. There are some big positives on the D but saying it was a top 10 D is very misleading. That is fair not BS or hope or hype. 

Nothing I said is an wrong or even really negative unless that naritive this was a top 10 D really matters to you for some reason. Some good, some bad and we saw some improvements and some not improvements (Chinn at FS comes to mind). We are used to having good to great Ds and 2021 wasn't comparable to our top D even with the upside it showed throughout the year.

Lol Hurney helped build an all D draft that is a huge chunk of this D by the way...and I despise Hurney. So my point stands and you are trying to deflect to Hurney about how this crew did last year after drafting D in the 1st and a new GM...So still not Hurney's fault in 2021 and still not a top 10 D unless you are talking in yards allowed. 

I didn't say you were wrong, I was just filling in the picture.  I'm sure you weren't trying to create the impression that our defense was mediocre.   We weren't just top ten in yards,  we were 2nd in yards allowed, we were 3rd in yards allowed  per play, we were 4th in first downs allowed, we were 4th in passes allowed, 4th in passing yards allowed, and  2nd in passing first downs allowed.  Even in rushing, we were 8th in yards allowed per attempt.  We weren't just top ten in several categories, were top 5, not just yards.   

Hurney did draft a lot of the D.   Hurney also created a situation where we had to fill the D with rookies in 2020.    Rhule drove off Hurney, maybe his only long term contribution to the Panthers. 

That D improved dramatically in 2021 and in many defensive measurements, it wasn't top ten, it was top 5.

If we didn't have  Darnold, an injured CMC , dropsies Chubba/Anderson, a horrible OL made worse by injuries, and Joe "I can't tie my shoes without mouthing about the bunny" Brady, the D wouldn't have had one of the worst average starting field positions in the league and spend the entire game on the field.... and then the D would have been top ten in points as well.
 

[Waldo]

54 minutes ago, poundaway said:

I didn't say you were wrong, I was just filling in the picture.  I'm sure you weren't trying to create the impression that our defense was mediocre.   We weren't just top ten in yards,  we were 2nd in yards allowed, we were 3rd in yards allowed  per play, we were 4th in first downs allowed, we were 4th in passes allowed, 4th in passing yards allowed, and  2nd in passing first downs allowed.  Even in rushing, we were 8th in yards allowed per attempt.  We weren't just top ten in several categories, were top 5, not just yards.   

Hurney did draft a lot of the D.   Hurney also created a situation where we had to fill the D with rookies in 2020.    Rhule drove off Hurney, maybe his only long term contribution to the Panthers. 

That D improved dramatically in 2021 and in many defensive measurements, it wasn't top ten, it was top 5.

If we didn't have  Darnold, an injured CMC , dropsies Chubba/Anderson, a horrible OL made worse by injuries, and Joe "I can't tie my shoes without mouthing about the bunny" Brady, the D wouldn't have had one of the worst average starting field positions in the league and spend the entire game on the field.... and then the D would have been top ten in points as well.
 

It was an overall average D with some upside. It also carried the O but that also is a big factor in the yards allowed, we allowed 200 more yards overall on the D than O had. We gave up 21 ints and only had 9 on D. 

I thought the entire idea was to get young and build the culture and foundation? Now it's forced to be young? Hurney did not trade for Sam lol. Yeah, I get we don't agree but your angles I just can't support or really understand on some levels. CMC was a big question mark last year, lots expeced him to get reinjured if we didn't stop Cam'ing him...we didn't and all signs point to it happening again (Rhule's own statment). 

Rhule has been much worse than Brady, Brady was just inexperienced. Rhule is Rhule. 

[poundaway]

16 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It was an overall average D with some upside.

If that makes you feel better.

Quote

Rhule has been much worse than Brady, Brady was just inexperienced. Rhule is Rhule. 

Not sure how you make that comparison, but whatever. 

My guess, Brady was just lucky to land at LSU with 3 HOFers and he'll never amount to anything.  He hasn't so far. 

[Varking]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:43 PM, poundaway said:

I think Macadoo has.  I think Campen has. 

That’s completely new hires for us. I meant when you look at Rhules hires for his college career and now in the pros I haven’t seen much offensive development out of him or his staff. Their defenses have always been way ahead of their offenses. We shall see how this year plays out but I’m just going off of his last like 9 years.