Matt Corral is here because of Ben McAdoo

[rayzor]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think the reigns were taken from him.  Not that he let up. 

IMO, the big Rhule issue is that the change is just from a GM/personel side of things.   GM is now doing the job of the GM.  But Rhule will still be doing the job of the coach. 

and Rhule doesn't seem to be a great leader of men at this level.  His game management is problematic.  Most important, his management of players and the roster is problematic.   

I do think having a staff of coaches that are frankly better overall NFL coaches than Rhule will solve some of the glaring Rhule issues.  But Rhule is a long documented micromanger.   That's a DNA thing.  Which I think the Matt Rhule thumbprint is inevitable despite the better staff. 

 

Probably so. He should never have been given them. I'm hoping that the loss of control on the GM side of things also extends to the coaching side of things. with such an experienced and good group of coaches working with him now, he really needs to keep his hands in his pockets, mouth shut, eyes and ears opened. let the coaches used to not just working within the league, but used to handling grown ups do what they are experienced and proven at and just learn from them on how to be a good coach at the pro level. it takes a lot more than a fishing trip with a retired coach to learn how to do the job at this level.

[shaqattaq]

28 minutes ago, CRA said:

Sam Darnold IMO will be the starting QB until the boos reign down at BOA and force Rhule's hand.   Everything suggests Rhule wanted to repeat the process and go the Baker route.  

Rhule just needs wins.  I think he is going to stick with Sam behind center, a comical overload of CMC and playing to the D as long as humanly possible. 

The Corral path is a development one.  And that isn't a path that does Matt Rhule a lot of favors this season. 

I agree that unless Corral blows Sam out of the water in camp, Sam will start week 1. Rhule and company have invested too much in him not to see how he performs behind a much improved line. It's also probably not a bad idea to let your 3rd round rookie eases himself into the NFL.

[Michael G]

Based on Tepper- Rhule doesn't have to make a playoff run. If Darnold starts and we struggle (1-4 or therebouts) and Corral comes in and progresses and we do better ( 5-7) our final record is 6-11 or so-- He claims progress and saves his job. Darnold is gone, Corral becomes the starter in 2023 (our draft spot probably won't result in one of the better QBs). Its a realistic scenario IMO.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, Michael G said:

Based on Tepper- Rhule doesn't have to make a playoff run. If Darnold starts and we struggle (1-4 or therebouts) and Corral comes in and progresses and we do better ( 5-7) our final record is 6-11 or so-- He claims progress and saves his job. Darnold is gone, Corral becomes the starter in 2023 (our draft spot probably won't result in one of the better QBs). Its a realistic scenario IMO.

Yes it will. Unless this team makes the playoffs the are picking in the top 15. Well within the range of trading up for a qb. Too much worrying about what could happen before the season is even played out.

[Michael G]

26 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Too much worrying about what could happen before the season is even played out.

Yep. I guess so. I'm counting my rotten eggs before they have a chance to hatch.

[CarolinaRideorDie]

Fitt essentially said that if Corral doesn't work out, then it's McAdoo's fault because he wanted him lol. At the same time, I believe McAdoo is better QB evaluator than Rhule and Fitt but Corral being QB#1 in a weak class doesn't mean crap. It's like being the prettiest ugly girl in the room. The weak QB class is reflected by all the QB prospects slipping in the draft or just even being passed on by QB needy teams. People on here were banging the table for Carson Strong who went UNDRAFTED!! 

Don't get me wrong, I hope and pray that Corral can be our Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, but let's not get carried away too. 

[Snake]

The way I see how the offense is done is this way. Fitters/Rhule draft everyone but QB. That's choice is given to the OC. Under Brady just like Payton he preferd to trade or sign a QB. Under BM it seems he preferd to draft one. Imo I'm not sure that's a great idea and you also have Tepper wanting a QB he could sell. So I still see disorganization in the FO and me personally would prefer the GM handle the draft and personal choices but it's not me. If this implodes I'm not really sure who's to blame because it seems the water is about as Muddy as the Mississippi. 

[poundaway]

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It’s funny because I was so on the fire Rhule train. I’m not saying we are out of the woods and he’s good but the assumptions and crazy takes on a simple statement. Fitterer said they deferred to McAdoo. He didn’t say there was some horrible disagreement just that he either broke a tie or was able to convince folks who maybe had a couple guys on the same level. Assuming anything past that is just bias.

I mean where in that statement does it says Rhule wanted to do another mediocre vet attempt and go Mayfield?

If I were to read into it and what Fitt said during the draft that they decided between Howell and Corral, I’d think it was probably that none of them saw a Josh Allen or Mahomes (use pick 6) and that Willis or Ridder weren’t a perfect match. I think once they saw Ridder go they got into a let’s work a trade mode, which Fitterer said Rhule got NE to trade. I’d think they were split between Howell and Corral and McAdoo liked Corral better so as soon as they felt those two would go, they traded up for Corral. There’s really nothing else that’s been said that brings Jimmy G, Baker, Pickett, Willis or Ridder in as guys anyone preferred over Corral. I’m sure we vetted them all and probably like some of them (if Corral went) but stuff like Rhule preferring Baker or us panicking over Willis goin is just a biased assumption. 

I think some are so mad at Rhule...they just hate him, that they are desperately searching for any way to knock him. 

Haters gonna hate.

Rhule fuged up the OL and QB last year.  He should have had more NFL experience in his coaching staff.  Like or not, he's trying to fix it this year.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 hour ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

Don't get me wrong, I hope and pray that Corral can be our Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, but let's not get carried away too. 

The Seahawks quickly realized what they had in Wilson as a rookie QB (Russell beat out Matt Flynn in training camp).

It seems like forever since the Panthers have had that sort of good fortune in the draft.

Edited May 3, 2022 by NanuqoftheNorth

[CarolinaRideorDie]

3 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

The Seahawks quickly realized what they had in Wilson as a rookie QB (Russell beat out Matt Flynn in training camp).

It seems like forever since the Panthers have had that sort of good fortune in the draft.

Of course we won't ever had that kind of fortune, seems like the football gods hate us for some reason. 

I knew Russell was going to be good because I went to NC State and saw him play. He was pretty much a walk on and back up, got his chance to start and elevated the NC State football team during his years, they were ranked because of him and he had nothing to work with. He went to Wisconsin and also won there too. I knew he was going to be a good QB but I didn't even expect him to be this great. I just don't see some of these QB prospects bringing that "winning culture" with them. Cam won where ever he went and elevated each team he played on. Some college QBs are great because they have an amazing support cast and are much harder to project (ex. Tua, Fields, Jones, etc.)

 

[MasterAwesome]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

Joe Brady was a green OC.   Hiring Joe Brady meant he was going to need time develop.  Part of the deal from the jump when you hire someone that has never been an OC much less a NFL one.   I simply accept that.

I’ve always called him green and I always pointed to his situational play calling as the key area he needed to develop and grow. 

I’ve also highlighted the fact he was a bad pairing for Matt Rhule.  Brady is talented but a green OC like him needed a real NFL HC.  We did this comical thing of everyone being green.  Everyone.  So we weren’t practicing like a NFL team should and devoting time to areas like we should.  Because the entire org was from college and didn’t know what to do.   But that’s not a Joe Brady issue in reality.  That’s an organization issue.  Everyone can’t be new and not know the NFL.  So the fault there is above Brady. 

But Joe Brady had consistently impressed overall except for one scenario given what he was …..and that was when the worst QB in the NFL was thrown at him.  

and yes, people were praising our 2020 offense.  We were overachieving at the time given what we were.   We should of been horrible. That was the expectation. We were in every game that year except for the ones against the eventual SB champs.….and frankly shouldn’t of been.   And it’s why Brady got HC interviews. 

 

Joe Brady consistently impressed you maybe...I don't see what he did that was objectively impressive unless you wanna tout this meaningless accolade of "4 different players with 1000+ yards from scrimmage!!".  You alluded to "career years" for everyone in our offense - can you elaborate on this?  I think Curtis Samuel is the only one who had a clear career year and he has always clearly been a super talented guy who just never had the opportunities.  I do credit Brady with some of the creative ways he used Samuel in the red zone; unfortunately that seemed to be the only way Brady knew how to score in the red zone.  Otherwise, looking at these other "career years":

DJ Moore - nothing "career" about his season - very consistent production with what he's done the past few years.

Robby Anderson - most yards of his career, but least TDs since his rookie season.  Plus if you're being consistent with your "Darnold is the worst QB in the league" take, then you'd be attributing Robby's production almost entirely to the simple fact that he finally didn't play with Darnold for the first time in several years, rather than giving the credit to Brady.

Teddy Bridgewater - more yards, less TDs.  Actually the lowest TD% of his career.  But overall, pretty par for the course for a Teddy season.

Mike Davis - I mean I guess he had a "career year" with regards to total numbers, although it's certainly no coincidence that this came when he was thrust into a consistent starting role for the first time in his career.  His production was pretty consistent with his last year in Seattle and last season with Atlanta when he had a similar workload.  Hardly a praiseworthy performance, big picture.

I feel like you're creating this narrative for Joe Brady being "impressive" cause you recognize that that's literally the only thing that prevents you from applying the same rationale and charitability to Rhule, that you are giving to Brady.  Being "green" and needing time to develop, pointing out the bad HC/OC pairing (which goes both ways - Brady wasn't doing Rhule any favors either), dealing with the worst QB in the NFL.  The only additional critique you can uniquely apply to Rhule is him being responsible for putting together such a green, amateurish coaching staff...which again, includes Brady.

Our offense in 2020 was statistically not good...we were 24th in PPG, 25th in 3rd down %, 28th in Red Zone %.  We had a below average starting QB and a very good 1-3 receiving corps; I'm not sure how you argue we overachieved with those offensive rankings, given our personnel.

Also, Brady getting HC interviews is a pretty meaningless thing to hang your hat on.  Not only did he not get hired anywhere, but he ended up having to accept a demotion with the Bills.  If he's clearly super talented, he would have gotten an opportunity somewhere as OC.  Unless you think FOs around the league are unable to properly analyze the individual work of an OC and just attributed all of our offensive failures last year to Brady without considering the Darnold factor.

[Mistuh Jones]

3 hours ago, rayzor said:

 it takes a lot more than a fishing trip with a retired coach to learn how to do the job at this level.

 

facts 

[poundaway]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Joe Brady consistently impressed you maybe...I don't see what he did that was objectively impressive unless you wanna tout this meaningless accolade of "4 different players with 1000+ yards from scrimmage!!".  You alluded to "career years" for everyone in our offense - can you elaborate on this?  I think Curtis Samuel is the only one who had a clear career year and he has always clearly been a super talented guy who just never had the opportunities.  I do credit Brady with some of the creative ways he used Samuel in the red zone; unfortunately that seemed to be the only way Brady knew how to score in the red zone.  Otherwise, looking at these other "career years":

DJ Moore - nothing "career" about his season - very consistent production with what he's done the past few years.

Robby Anderson - most yards of his career, but least TDs since his rookie season.  Plus if you're being consistent with your "Darnold is the worst QB in the league" take, then you'd be attributing Robby's production almost entirely to the simple fact that he finally didn't play with Darnold for the first time in several years, rather than giving the credit to Brady.

Teddy Bridgewater - more yards, less TDs.  Actually the lowest TD% of his career.  But overall, pretty par for the course for a Teddy season.

Mike Davis - I mean I guess he had a "career year" with regards to total numbers, although it's certainly no coincidence that this came when he was thrust into a consistent starting role for the first time in his career.  His production was pretty consistent with his last year in Seattle and last season with Atlanta when he had a similar workload.  Hardly a praiseworthy performance, big picture.

I feel like you're creating this narrative for Joe Brady being "impressive" cause you recognize that that's literally the only thing that prevents you from applying the same rationale and charitability to Rhule, that you are giving to Brady.  Being "green" and needing time to develop, pointing out the bad HC/OC pairing (which goes both ways - Brady wasn't doing Rhule any favors either), dealing with the worst QB in the NFL.  The only additional critique you can uniquely apply to Rhule is him being responsible for putting together such a green, amateurish coaching staff...which again, includes Brady.

Our offense in 2020 was statistically not good...we were 24th in PPG, 25th in 3rd down %, 28th in Red Zone %.  We had a below average starting QB and a very good 1-3 receiving corps; I'm not sure how you argue we overachieved with those offensive rankings, given our personnel.

Also, Brady getting HC interviews is a pretty meaningless thing to hang your hat on.  Not only did he not get hired anywhere, but he ended up having to accept a demotion with the Bills.  If he's clearly super talented, he would have gotten an opportunity somewhere as OC.  Unless you think FOs around the league are unable to properly analyze the individual work of an OC and just attributed all of our offensive failures last year to Brady without considering the Darnold factor.

Excellent post.

 

[CRA]

22 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Joe Brady consistently impressed you maybe...I don't see what he did that was objectively impressive unless you wanna tout this meaningless accolade of "4 different players with 1000+ yards from scrimmage!!".  You alluded to "career years" for everyone in our offense - can you elaborate on this?  I think Curtis Samuel is the only one who had a clear career year and he has always clearly been a super talented guy who just never had the opportunities.  I do credit Brady with some of the creative ways he used Samuel in the red zone; unfortunately that seemed to be the only way Brady knew how to score in the red zone.  Otherwise, looking at these other "career years":

DJ Moore - nothing "career" about his season - very consistent production with what he's done the past few years.

Robby Anderson - most yards of his career, but least TDs since his rookie season.  Plus if you're being consistent with your "Darnold is the worst QB in the league" take, then you'd be attributing Robby's production almost entirely to the simple fact that he finally didn't play with Darnold for the first time in several years, rather than giving the credit to Brady.

Teddy Bridgewater - more yards, less TDs.  Actually the lowest TD% of his career.  But overall, pretty par for the course for a Teddy season.

Mike Davis - I mean I guess he had a "career year" with regards to total numbers, although it's certainly no coincidence that this came when he was thrust into a consistent starting role for the first time in his career.  His production was pretty consistent with his last year in Seattle and last season with Atlanta when he had a similar workload.  Hardly a praiseworthy performance, big picture.

I feel like you're creating this narrative for Joe Brady being "impressive" cause you recognize that that's literally the only thing that prevents you from applying the same rationale and charitability to Rhule, that you are giving to Brady.  Being "green" and needing time to develop, pointing out the bad HC/OC pairing (which goes both ways - Brady wasn't doing Rhule any favors either), dealing with the worst QB in the NFL.  The only additional critique you can uniquely apply to Rhule is him being responsible for putting together such a green, amateurish coaching staff...which again, includes Brady.

Our offense in 2020 was statistically not good...we were 24th in PPG, 25th in 3rd down %, 28th in Red Zone %.  We had a below average starting QB and a very good 1-3 receiving corps; I'm not sure how you argue we overachieved with those offensive rankings, given our personnel.

Also, Brady getting HC interviews is a pretty meaningless thing to hang your hat on.  Not only did he not get hired anywhere, but he ended up having to accept a demotion with the Bills.  If he's clearly super talented, he would have gotten an opportunity somewhere as OC.  Unless you think FOs around the league are unable to properly analyze the individual work of an OC and just attributed all of our offensive failures last year to Brady without considering the Darnold factor.

at some point Joe Brady turned into this univeral scapegoat.  And I have defended him from that.   There are literally people saying Joe Brady is 100% responsible for Sam Darnold being here and other nonsenical narratives lol.  

Getting NFL HC interviews only happens if you are catching the eye and ears of the league.  I suspect they likely were wanting to feel him out for for down the road if he continued to impress and progress.  To say he wasn't impressing is just denying the reality of the talk around him at the time.  Whether you agreed with it or not isn't really relevant.  It existed.  Just or unjust. 

I think the 2021 Panthers were an utter trainwreck. One that really was not recognized properly.   And Urban helped saved Matt Rhule and the Panthers from getting the light on them they would have without Urban.  Because while Panthers were a seasonal shitshow, Urban was a once in a decade type debacle.  

Joe Brady would have been a hard sell to bring on as OC after Rhule let him go in 2021.   No one was going to make a lateral move coming out of that mess. I suspect we will see Joe Brady again.  But you probably will want to see him on a team geared and equipped toward the pass.   All goes back to this FO and how poorly everthing was put together.  Nothing made sense.  Matt Rhule basically believes in winning like John Fox and Ron Rivera.   Him hiring Joe Brady was more a PR move to look exciting.  Which I think Rhule essentially has admitted to a degree.  All comes back to Tepper/Rhule.  When poo hits the fan you start with the people most reposnsible.  That's not the NFL but that's how we should judge it IMO.