Discussion: The Panther Decision involving Baker

[jayboogieman]

13 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Sam:  Cmp% 59.9      Rate:71.9       Int:13      QBR: 33.2
Baker Cmp% 60.5      Rate:83.1       Int:13      QBR 35.1

Baker looked like shlt last year with Chubb, Teller, Bitonio, Beckham (till mid Nov) and Landry. 

What do you think his numbers would have been had he played for us last year?

 

I don't have a dog in the fight, but to be fair, Mayfield was injured last season and still put up numbers as good as Darnold's best season in 2019. @ForJimmy is correct that Mayfield has been the better QB of the two. That said, it's a low bar to clear.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, poundaway said:

Hey we agree on something.

McAdoo liked Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,Sam Darnold , Josh Rosen  and Mason Rudolph ahead of Mayfield in that draft.

So you honestly believe  our GM and HC would ignore our new OC and  trade ANYTHING for Baker who SUCKED with an awesome OL, an excellent RB, and 2 excellent WR's?  Seriously?

 

 

How many games were they winning in Cleveland before Baker arrived?  And I will tell you again--this is about what the front office might be doing--for the purpose of contemplating an option.  You do not have to love it.  With this logic, we should punt on first down and forget the whole thing because all of our options are likely losing propositions.  How many drafts, by the way, would you rearrange your priorities 4 years after the fact?  Are you really holding that against him?  Baker has outplayed 3 of the names on that list, and I doubt McAdoo would disagree.

[MHS831]

Giving the guy 1 year at under $10m when he had a good 2020 and has a ton of motivation seems like low risk, high potential reward to me. 

[poundaway]

6 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, but to be fair, Mayfield was injured last season and still put up numbers as good as Darnold's best season in 2019. @ForJimmy is correct that Mayfield has been the better QB of the two. That said, it's a low bar to clear.

His numbers look  very similar to Darnold's season last year, and Darnold broke his throwing shoulder.  Mayfield tore his non-throwing labrum at first and then broke his non throwing  left arm. 
 

Mayfield may be better, but he has been carried by a FAR SUPERIOR cast. 

We will not win more games with Mayfield.  He sucks, like Darnold. 

[poundaway]

11 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

How many games were they winning in Cleveland before Baker arrived?  And I will tell you again--this is about what the front office might be doing--for the purpose of contemplating an option.  You do not have to love it.  With this logic, we should punt on first down and forget the whole thing because all of our options are likely losing propositions.  How many drafts, by the way, would you rearrange your priorities 4 years after the fact?  Are you really holding that against him?  Baker has outplayed 3 of the names on that list, and I doubt McAdoo would disagree.

Swapping Sam for Baker is like swapping shlt for vomit.

[KatsAzz]

The issue for the Panthers is they’ve already previously committed to paying Darnold the same amount when they picked up his fifth-year option after trading for him a year ago. This is why if the Browns offer to cover some of Mayfield’s salary at the time of the trade, the Panthers may be more inclined to talk.

Being willing to pay a portion of the salary will only increase trade offers from interested teams. It comes down to what the Browns value more–draft picks or cap space. Depending on whether they feel Deshaun Watson will be suspended for any part of the 2022 season, the Browns could go either way. Preserving the cap space allows a stronger roster to be built this season, while more draft picks keeps building toward the future, or a push to compete in 2023.

As far as what type of draft picks the Browns can get back in a Mayfield trade, the Panthers don’t currently have much to part with, but trading down from No. 6 while collecting a few more assets could change things. Basically, if the Panthers trade down in the first round, keep an eye out for a Mayfield trade to be announced shortly after, unless they land a QB.

Another potential scenario is one that has the Browns being stubborn, not willing to pay Mayfield’s salary, choosing to unload him while paying a team draft picks to take on his contract. In this case, the Browns may have to package one of their two third-round selections (78 or 99) to coax a team in agreeing to such a trade.

Maybe they even tie the compensation into Mayfield’s 2022-23 performance, whether it be based on playing time, wins, or starts. Any trade for Mayfield should likely include some of these provisions as his season could go either way. Still, for a team hoping to add competition to their QB room, Mayfield remains one of the best options available and he won’t cost a team a first round pick, but he does impact the cap in a fairly large way.

There’s no telling what a final trade will look like. Since it’s taking so long for the Browns to find a partner, maybe the final price is something minuscule, like a sixth or seventh-round pick, simply to shed his salary and get Mayfield off the roster, avoiding a potentially awkward locker room.

Edited April 19, 2022 by KatsAzz

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, poundaway said:

Sam:  Cmp% 59.9      Rate:71.9       Int:13      QBR: 33.2
Baker Cmp% 60.5      Rate:83.1       Int:13      QBR 35.1

Baker looked like shlt last year with Chubb, Teller, Bitonio, Beckham (till mid Nov) and Landry. 

What do you think his numbers would have been had he played for us last year?

 

Lol you are comparing Baker with his injured shoulder and he STILL tops Darnold. Ok now do the previous year when he was healthy…

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, but to be fair, Mayfield was injured last season and still put up numbers as good as Darnold's best season in 2019. @ForJimmy is correct that Mayfield has been the better QB of the two. That said, it's a low bar to clear.

I think Baker is an average QB in the league who could still get a little better. Darnold is at the very bottom… 

[poundaway]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Lol you are comparing Baker with his injured shoulder and he STILL tops Darnold. Ok now do the previous year when he was healthy…

  Sigh.  He hurt his non throwing arm. Darnold broke his throwing shoulder. 

They were both hurt last year.

Baker is a whiny bitch version of Sam.  He sucks ass.

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, poundaway said:

  Sigh.  He hurt his non throwing arm. Darnold broke his throwing shoulder. 

They were both hurt last year.

Baker is a whiny bitch version of Sam.  He sucks ass.

Now do the year they were both healthy. Do you not want to, because it ruins your argument? 

[poundaway]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Now do the year they were both healthy. Do you not want to, because it ruins your argument? 

How bout you list all the all-pro and pro-bowl players Baker has played with on O and how many Sam has?

Or better yet, lets look at some of Baker's best moments:

 

 

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, poundaway said:

How bout you list all the all-pro and pro-bowl players Baker has played with on O and how many Sam has?

Or better yet, lets look at some of Baker's best moments:

 

 

It’s funny because he had the same cast that Teddy did with us and made our offense look so bad our OC got fired. He is constantly in the bottom of the league for QB rating and stats. Baker went to the worst team in the league and had them in the playoffs in several years. Everyone knows why you won’t pull up 2020’s stats when both QBs were healthy. Darnold was IRed this year when he was hurt and Baker tried to play through his. So you can cherry pick stats (where Baker still was better ), put up random video clips, but he is much better than Sam.

The sad thing is, I’m not even saying Baker is great, he is middle of the pack average with a little potential. Sam is just that bad that Baker would be a upgrade.

[poundaway]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

The sad thing is, I’m not even saying Baker is great

We are agree here.

Quote

he is middle of the pack average with a little potential.

No, he's not.  He's below average.  Maybe a tinge better than Sam, but hard to tell when you're surrounded by probowlers, all-pros and Odell Beckham.  Put him with average talent he'd suck ass.

Bridgewater is better than both of them.

[Shocker]

2 hours ago, SazmoRanger said:

The only critique I have is this…. As you stated Baker/Browns only have 1 suitor. They have absolutely 0 leverage. Browns have a choice in either keeping him on the roster, cutting him, or taking the peanuts the Panthers might give them. 
 

Let the draft play out and if the Panthers want Baker, offer up a 6th and Darnold. Browns get SOMETHING and both teams take on stupid QB contracts for a year. 

I was also saying this but the more I look at it Sam is a much better teammate than Baker.  I don’t really want him here anymore