Panthers favor Malik Willis?

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

You label any QB you don't like as a running QB because you are still bitter about Michael Vick. You need to grow and evolve beyond a caveman way of thinking or just be quiet

It is a known definition in football. 

A QB that can't win on a high level from the pocket is a running QB.

Vick Manziel Cunningham Stewart etc.

A mobile QB can win games without having to run once. Russ, Mahomes Staubach etc.

 

It's not a difficult distinction. Throwing the ball accurately to the right spot with any velocity necessary is and will always be the number one physical trait of a QB.

That will never change. 

[frankw]

15 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

You do understand that prospect's value is based on projection, correct?  You are right, nobody knows the future, including Miss Cleo.   I have a feeling you do not follow the draft closely at all.  I mean what is the point in scouting if you don't need to know how prospect looks up until midway through their draft year? I do it that way as hobby, but hey, I'm not getting paid or on a team's staff.  Professional scouts go a bit deeper and need more than just one season worth of tape to get a good read on prospects.  The word out there...even though we realize the season has yet to be played, is the 2023 QB crop is going to be stout.

I follow the draft about the same as most and no I do not pretend to be a pro scout or that I have the ability to predict the future. I am very much aware of the situation we face and I have reconciled with the fact we may take two shots at QB before we hit looking at the odds and what some other franchises have gone through in recent years . I'm not going to get bent out of shape or be all doom and gloom if we take one this year I'll just hope for the best.

[Catsfan69]

5 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I don't think these old guys respect a guy who gets it done with his legs as well as his arm. It's like if you don't play the game the way I want you to your a "running quarterback" and you can't win. Despite being the MVP you illegitimate.

PRODUCTION in any form is what counts at the end of the day. I DONT care if you run for 100 yards every game as long as you scoring touchdowns and moving the sticks. Are rushing touchdowns worth less than passing touchdowns? Get the job done is all that matters. 

You don't go 95 yards in the last 2 minutes of the Superbowl to tie or win on legs. You do it by throwing. 

That's just the way it is.

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So if our professional scouting team drafts Willis or Pickett, are you going to be ok with it? 

The 23 class has a lot of potential, but we have a lot of unknown variables too. Who is leaving early, who gets injured, who regressed and most importantly where are we picking? 

I feel if Neal or Icky or there then it’s a no brainer, but if they aren’t it is pretty wide open… We may get our top QB in this class at 6 versus the 5th or 6th option next year. I’m just trying to look at it from all angles. The hardest obstacle to figure out is how much control Rhule has over the roster and how that will affect our draft. 

If we draft Willis or Pickett at 6 I will support either.  I mean damn I gave Teddy and darnold a chance.  However I will still think that for the 3rd year in a row we have totally fuged up our first round draft pick. 

 

The thing you are completely missing about the 23 class is not about who is at the top now, its the sheer volume of potential players.  Sure a couple may flame out like Rattler did or not progress like Howell did but there are like 10 guys getting first round publicity and thats not counting the always obscure guy that rises.  And as far as where we are picking I am betting dollars to donuts its top 10 and more then likely top 5 as long as Darnold starts (and ultimately gets hurt) and Rhule coaching.  Hopefully in 23 we will not have to do a major reach on a complete project like Willis or a ho hum guy like Pickett.  We will have better options. 

[45catfan]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

So if our professional scouting team drafts Willis or Pickett, are you going to be ok with it? 

The 23 class has a lot of potential, but we have a lot of unknown variables too. Who is leaving early, who gets injured, who regressed and most importantly where are we picking? 

I feel if Neal or Icky or there then it’s a no brainer, but if they aren’t it is pretty wide open… We may get our top QB in this class at 6 versus the 5th or 6th option next year. I’m just trying to look at it from all angles. The hardest obstacle to figure out is how much control Rhule has over the roster and how that will affect our draft. 

Actually, no I won't be okay with it, but stupid moves is becoming the hallmark of this organization.  Yes, the '23 class has tons of potential.  Unless it's a Tua type of injury (potentially career ending) then I'm not worried about it.  Now that Covid has chilled out, kids won't be staying in school anymore.  They will have two solid years of full-schedule football on tape.  The dip in draft eligible kids staying in school we had seen will go away.  Up until Covid, the pool of underclassmen declaring for the draft had been going up year over year.  Unless one of the top draft eligible QBs has a really down year (or misses significant time due to injury), I suspect nearly all of them will declare.

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He's top 12. I'll give him that but he isn't elite.

A top 12 QB is a "running" QB??? How can this be?  Also which 11 do you have above him?

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

A top 12 QB is a "running" QB??? How can this be?  Also which 11 do you have above him?

Top 12 doesn't mean he is 12th but I have posted this before. I'll probably forget somebody.

Tier 1 in no order Mahomes Brady Rogers

Slight drop

Tier 2 in no order Russ, Watson Allen Stafford Burrow

Bigger drop 

Tier 3 in order Dak Carr Murray Herbert/ Lamar( pretty even)

Tier 4 Mayfied, Cousins ,Wilson Lawrence Ryan in no order

[ForJimmy]

20 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If we draft Willis or Pickett at 6 I will support either.  I mean damn I gave Teddy and darnold a chance.  However I will still think that for the 3rd year in a row we have totally fuged up our first round draft pick. 

 

The thing you are completely missing about the 23 class is not about who is at the top now, its the sheer volume of potential players.  Sure a couple may flame out like Rattler did or not progress like Howell did but there are like 10 guys getting first round publicity and thats not counting the always obscure guy that rises.  And as far as where we are picking I am betting dollars to donuts its top 10 and more then likely top 5 as long as Darnold starts (and ultimately gets hurt) and Rhule coaching.  Hopefully in 23 we will not have to do a major reach on a complete project like Willis or a ho hum guy like Pickett.  We will have better options. 

No I get the volume. Is the 5th/6th guy a better prospect than Willis/Pickett. Banking on us getting a top 10 pick could be a dangerous move. I mean we are 6th now, 8th before and have already repaired a good portion of our OL. There are just a lot of variables in the wait until next year approach. I personally will be ok if they ignore QB this year, but I don’t think Rhule will. If we are high on a guy in 23, we can even trade up, it’s just been pricey lately. I wish we just signed Mitch to a cheap deal like the Steelers did…

[Icdeadpeople]

Great draft Willis if he's not there trade back get a top OL, sounds

[mrcompletely11]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

No I get the volume. Is the 5th/6th guy a better prospect than Willis/Pickett. Banking on us getting a top 10 pick could be a dangerous move. I mean we are 6th now, 8th before and have already repaired a good portion of our OL. There are just a lot of variables in the wait until next year approach. I personally will be ok if they ignore QB this year, but I don’t think Rhule will. If we are high on a guy in 23, we can even trade up, it’s just been pricey lately. I wish we just signed Mitch to a cheap deal like the Steelers did…

Willis and Pickett would be ranked 6th 7th in last years class.   I would absolutely roll the dice that next years guys are going to be rated higher then both again.   

[micnificent28]

40 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

You don't go 95 yards in the last 2 minutes of the Superbowl to tie or win on legs. You do it by throwing. 

That's just the way it is.

First of all you have to get to the super bowl. And to do that you have to win games. Legs or arm. And if youe team doing what it needs it doesn't come down to 2 mins in the super bowl. That's a very specific situation. Having this kind of of success without being a " pocket passer" means you dead wrong.

[micnificent28]

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Willis and Pickett would be ranked 6th 7th in last years class.   I would absolutely roll the dice that next years guys are going to be rated higher then both again.   

But rhule might not have a next year.. you gonna run out same and think he is magically better? Or swing at another guy who might be better. The future is now for Rhule not next year and hope tepper gives him another year or 2 after next with a rookie qb.

[Catsfan69]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

First of all you have to get to the super bowl. And to do that you have to win games. Legs or arm. And if youe team doing what it needs it doesn't come down to 2 mins in the super bowl. That's a very specific situation. Having this kind of of success without being a " pocket passer" means you dead wrong.

What's his playoff record?

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

But rhule might not have a next year.. you gonna run out same and think he is magically better? Or swing at another guy who might be better. The future is now for Rhule not next year and hope tepper gives him another year or 2 after next with a rookie qb.

Neither Willis (who will not play this year) or Pickett is going to move the win total in his favor this late in the game.   His best and only hope is to pray darnold gets him to 8/9 wins.