Panthers closing in on Duane Brown

[DaveThePanther2008]

20 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I am.  Neal, Ekwonu and Cross are stacked #3, #4 and #5 overall on my favorite BB.  So unless Hutchinson or Walker falls to #6, all those dudes are ranked WELL ahead of either Willis or Pickett.  Also, you don't hang your hat on a 3rd round guy when a better prospect is there for the taking.  Willis is #14 and Pickett is #30 on that site.  But hey, we need a QB.  For all of Marty Hurney's faults...and there was a ton of them, he stuck to this philosophy regarding first round picks and never missed. 

 

Agreed MH never missed on round one.  You shouldn't miss on round one.  3rd round picks are supposed to be potential starters but you have to give them time to develop.  BC IMO is our best option at LT considering our other needs and I'm not only talking QB. 

If we choose a LT than so be it.  I won't be screaming on this board, like many do, that it was a wasted pick.  I just feel that we have a LT on the roster and if Rhule plays him in at LT he will perform well. 

[Byrdman4real]

3 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Everyone keeps saying Pickett but everything I have seen from senior bowl and combine on say Willis is clearly qb1. Pickett and Willis would have been taken behind every first rounder from last year. That puts them around second round caliber or Jimmy G range. If that's the case I gamble on upside which Willis has more of.

I will support which ever one. After analyzing both, don't know which is best for the situation. One is better now and one could be alot better later. 

[45catfan]

1 hour ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Agreed MH never missed on round one.  You shouldn't miss on round one.  3rd round picks are supposed to be potential starters but you have to give them time to develop.  BC IMO is our best option at LT considering our other needs and I'm not only talking QB. 

If we choose a LT than so be it.  I won't be screaming on this board, like many do, that it was a wasted pick.  I just feel that we have a LT on the roster and if Rhule plays him in at LT he will perform well. 

Yet, plenty of teams do miss on their first round picks.  HUGE difference between "potential starters" and franchise LTs.  Yes, BC is our best option on our our roster currently, but that's not a ringing endorsement.

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

Yet, plenty of teams do miss on their first round picks.  HUGE difference between "potential starters" and franchise LTs.  Yes, BC is our best option on our our roster currently, but that's not a ringing endorsement.

Many do, yes, but that is because the GM doesn't do their homework.  Too many good players that slip to the 2nd and 3rd round that shoulda coulda been 1st rounders.

Based on your logic the only players that you should be concerned about are 1st rounders.  

Teams build through the draft with 1st and 2nd rounders as starters, 3rd rounders potential starters and 4th and beyond are crapshoots.  

You don't waste (Hurney did) picks for stopgap.  BC has talent and given the time he will most likely perform well.  

Like I said if we draft a LT than IMO that is what Fitterer and Rhule thinks best.  As long as it isn't some left field player that could be a bust.   I just think we could address other needs and let BC play LT.  

You don't and that's your opinion which I can respect, just don't agree with. 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Yet, plenty of teams do miss on their first round picks.  HUGE difference between "potential starters" and franchise LTs.  Yes, BC is our best option on our our roster currently, but that's not a ringing endorsement.

Yeah, BC is not in the same class as guys like Neal, Ekwonu or Cross. Not to mention, Neal or Ekwonu could be top 10 OG's as their floor versus a guy like BC who literally is unlikely to be able to play at an NFL level at any other position than OT.

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, BC is not in the same class as guys like Neal, Ekwonu or Cross. Not to mention, Neal or Ekwonu could be top 10 OG's as their floor versus a guy like BC who literally is unlikely to be able to play at an NFL level at any other position than OT.

For argument sake, cause after all this is a forum.  What do you do with BC?  You say he's not much of an IOL.  Just a backup?  Let any name above play OG while Christensen proves himself? If he fails move him to the bench or inside.  

[kungfoodude]

Just now, DaveThePanther2008 said:

For argument sake, cause after all this is a forum.  What do you do with BC?  You say he's not much of an IOL.  Just a backup?  Let any name above play OG while Christensen proves himself? If he fails move him to the bench or inside.  

BC is best suited to being a backup OT, IMO. I don't think he is a starting caliber player at all. As a third rounder, that's fine. We could have done a lot better than him but that was our infatuation with the idea of "versatility" without that actually being the case. Had he been very versatile in college, I would have agreed with that assessment, given that he is an above average athlete. 

Ideally, I am just wrong and he is at least an average LT or can eventually play other positions at an average or better level.

I would just personally bet against either of those scenarios happening. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

BC is best suited to being a backup OT, IMO. I don't think he is a starting caliber player at all. As a third rounder, that's fine. We could have done a lot better than him but that was our infatuation with the idea of "versatility" without that actually being the case. Had he been very versatile in college, I would have agreed with that assessment, given that he is an above average athlete. 

Ideally, I am just wrong and he is at least an average LT or can eventually play other positions at an average or better level.

I would just personally bet against either of those scenarios happening. 

Maybe you're right.  

I do believe that Campen is going to make a huge difference for our offensive line.  Current and our new FA.  Maybe he can move in inside and play well.   I was not happy at all with the entire offensive side of the ball coaching staff.  Hopefully, this year will be different. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Maybe you're right.  

I do believe that Campen is going to make a huge difference for our offensive line.  Current and our new FA.  Maybe he can move in inside and play well.   I was not happy at all with the entire offensive side of the ball coaching staff.  Hopefully, this year will be different. 

I think Campen will help but he isn't gonna mold Daley or Erving or Elflein or Miller or whatever bum off the street into great players. Those coaches matter but not as much as fans think. They have a limited amount of time to work with these guys, so being a good player or great player is largely gonna be on the players themselves. They have to put in the work and do what is necessary to get better on THEIR time.

Reference all the Horn videos of him constantly training or him going to train with other elite DB's. Reference Peyton Manning working with David Cutcliffe in the offseason. Reference the videos of guys like Larry Fitzgerald or OBJ's offseason training work.

That is what makes great players, that drive to be the best. Coaches aren't going to mold JAGS in to Pro Bowlers. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think Campen will help but he isn't gonna mold Daley or Erving or Elflein or Miller or whatever bum off the street into great players. Those coaches matter but not as much as fans think. They have a limited amount of time to work with these guys, so being a good player or great player is largely gonna be on the players themselves. They have to put in the work and do what is necessary to get better on THEIR time.

Reference all the Horn videos of him constantly training or him going to train with other elite DB's. Reference Peyton Manning working with David Cutcliffe in the offseason. Reference the videos of guys like Larry Fitzgerald or OBJ's offseason training work.

That is what makes great players, that drive to be the best. Coaches aren't going to mold JAGS in to Pro Bowlers. 

True points.  These guys have to put the work in off-season.  That said if you are working on things that a bad coach teaches you, You're not going to improve.  What I have read is he has his knack and a way with players.  

Maybe not the older vets but possibly some of the younger guys that were under the previous coach might benefit.   

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

True points.  These guys have to put the work in off-season.  That said if you are working on things that a bad coach teaches you, You're not going to improve.  What I have read is he has his knack and a way with players.  

Maybe not the older vets but possibly some of the younger guys that were under the previous coach might benefit.   

If you listen to Mike Wahle talk on recent episodes of The 4 Man Rush, he basically says that the time they have to work on fundamentals is extremely, extremely limited. That stuff has to be player driven, they have to out in that work on their own.

That is why it is so much more critical to be getting "finished products" from an NFL Draft rather than extremely raw material, no matter how talented. 

That's why some of our draft picks are so fuging stupid. You get a guy like BC because he tests well athletically but you think he is a guard. You pass on a guy like Slater because he has "short arms" despite watching film and seeing what a great player he is. 

That's another reason I don't have much faith in BC. He was selected by these dopes for high school recruit reasons, not NFL draftee reasons.

Edited March 20, 2022 by kungfoodude

[micnificent28]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Depends on what you want.

If you need a guy who can play right now, it's gonna be Pickett.

If you can afford to be patient and hope for better results down the road, you could try Willis.

Or in our case, when you have an owner and a head coach who both like a certain player, well...

I feel like the age old myth of guys needing time to develop is dead. If your drafted in the first round this past decade these kids are playing. Sooner than later... 

I think either way your coming into the season with darnold as your starter if you draft either of these kids. That said given the same amount of time I would rather swing for the fences if we are forcing a qb. I think Willis even has a higher completion percentage. 

 

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

I guess this points toward that we are drafting either a QB or a DE/DT in the 1st round. I would be more than ecstatic about drafting Thibadeux from Oregon if he drops to 6. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by TANTRIC-NINJA

[CarolinaNCSU]

Reads to me like Voth just confirmed Duane Brown is a Panther