DE Brown bears weight of Panthers draft gamble

[PantherDude]

It's not Browns fault that we drafted him. He will be a good player for us.

Yeah. Give him time, guys. Didn't Meeks want him as well with how he has 2 great small DE like him when he was with the Colts? We got him for speed beside strength. If you have no strength & no speed for a DE, you may not be able to do much for that position. Again, I think he look promising & we'll see how he does next season.

Peppers situation is up in the air next year. We very well could be without him. We needed a DE to help fill the void for next year. Hell be a starter.

Yep. We got him, 'cause we weren't sure if Pep wasn't coming back. If Pep signed a contract to stay here for a few years after the last season was over, we might never gotten Brown at all with how we has Taylor & C.Johnson. And we probably could've still gotten a 1st round for 2010 Draft. I kinda blame Pep for this whole mess, not to mention we didn't trade Pep with how no teams were going to give us 2 1st round picks & maybe a vet or two. No way in hell we should've accept 2nd round picks.

[Lumps]

Brown's played/started in, as a rookie, like six or seven NFL games and you think you can accurately evaluate his worth? Brown is doing above average as a rookie and that is all you can expect.

Watch, next year is is going to be bigger, faster and meaner once the NFL training guys can coach him through an entire offseason/preseason, without having to do all the rookie bullshit. Year 2 is evaluation time.

Was it worth the pick? Well, that depends on who we would have picked, you know great players don't always come from the first round...in fact I I would bet on most great players coming from later rounds...fact is you never really know, and it sure isn't the end of the world. We just need a QB and I would be more comfortable trading for one than drafting because of concern for Fox's ability to condition a QB other than Jake, that is if we keep Fox.

[scpanther22]

Brown's played/started in, as a rookie, like six or seven NFL games and you think you can accurately evaluate his worth? Brown is doing above average as a rookie and that is all you can expect.

Watch, next year is is going to be bigger, faster and meaner once the NFL training guys can coach him through an entire offseason/preseason, without having to do all the rookie bullshit. Year 2 is evaluation time.

Was it worth the pick? Well, that depends on who we would have picked, you know great players don't always come from the first round...in fact I I would bet on most great players coming from later rounds...fact is you never really know, and it sure isn't the end of the world. We just need a QB and I would be more comfortable trading for one than drafting because of concern for Fox's ability to condition a QB other than Jake, that is if we keep Fox.

when did he start doing above average??

[scpanther22]

I am never too bothered using a first round pick on a high character, high motor guy.

Worst case scenario we get a player who gives his all, all the time and is a great locker room guy. Brown is all these things. When you see some of the high talent high risk players booming or busting I am always happy with the safer pick. That is how true franchises are built.

So your team..would be the nicest high motor crap team in the NFL??..Because you put more stock in his motor??:mad2:

[MaineManPanther]

Fox and Hurney figured that if they kept their 2010 1st rounder and failed to produce a .500 season, they would be fired. They figured if they traded their 2010 1st rounder and failed to produce a .500 season, they would be fired.

If somehow, they could trade their 2010 1st rounder for a player that they identified as a guy that could help them win games in case Peppers didn't report or just as a back up plan... then that was the route to go.

That's why you can't have a GM on the hot seat. You either have to fire him the first time you consider it or you have to promise him a secure future. With Big Cat neither endorsing or demoting Fox and Hurney, they were left in the wind thinking that this year was for all the marbles.... a critical mistake when you're dealing with some very important assets for the future and present alike.

You think Fox and Hurney give a flying damn if Peppers is gone after this year if they are gone too? Welcome to the farewell tour.

I highly doubt they thought Brown was the missing link/huge factor toward us having a great season this year. If they truly thought a DE was the missing part and that they dont care, why wouldnt they just trade more current/future picks to get a higher ranked DE?

[Vagrant]

I highly doubt they thought Brown was the missing link/huge factor toward us having a great season this year. If they truly thought a DE was the missing part and that they dont care, why wouldnt they just trade more current/future picks to get a higher ranked DE?

At the time, they thought that Peppers may not be coming back because he wasn't signing his tender. They thought they may end up with Brayton and Johnson as the starters, and they didn't like that thought at the time.

So why didn't they just throw that 1st round pick towards somebody for an established DE?

1. Because Peppers still may sign his tender *which he ultimately did, obviously*

2. Because if you DO have a good season, you don't want to cripple your chances for future success if you avoid being fired after the upcoming season.

Brown gave us the best of both worlds. Instant help should Peppers not sign, and a DE with great potential.

[MaineManPanther]

At the time, they thought that Peppers may not be coming back because he wasn't signing his tender. They thought they may end up with Brayton and Johnson as the starters, and they didn't like that thought at the time.

So why didn't they just throw that 1st round pick towards somebody for an established DE?

1. Because Peppers still may sign his tender *which he ultimately did, obviously*

2. Because if you DO have a good season, you don't want to cripple your chances for future success if you avoid being fired after the upcoming season.

Brown gave us the best of both worlds. Instant help should Peppers not sign, and a DE with great potential.

My problem with the argument is them thinking Brown would be a instant help. Very few DE perform well for the first season, let alone make up for Peppers void. Id assume they knew all that. I think they got him, yes to help this year, but mainly for insurance years on.

[Fox007]

crolls is right here. Brown is the type of player who flourishes in a system like Meeks runs and has a good chance to be an impact player in the league. So far playing in 9 games he is second among rookie DEs with 13 tackles. He has 2 FFs and one sack. The most any rookie DE has is 2. Anyone who follows the success of linemen in the NFL in their rookie year knows that few if any of them come in and make an impact right away. Folks who think he is wasted pick needed to remember that one of our problems with guys with Hayes and Brown is that we didn't wait for them to mature and develop. Look at Charles Johnson for example. He is just now coming into his own in his third year. Players need time to work on their strength and their hand and foot work. Brown will be a much better player in a year or two. Fortunately we have the time to let him develop because Hurney was smart enough to draft him before we had to have him produce immediately.

Where is his brilliance as it applies to the QB position then?

Clearly we have nothing developing for when Jake fails(failed) out. Which actually happened last year.

[Woodie]

Everyone has to remember that we traded this next draft's first round pick, not last year's, so at this point we have given up nothing. Anything we are getting from Brown this season is a bonus and more than we would have gotten without the trade.

My point is that it is far too early to evaluate the value of the pick we traded. By coming in a year before the pick would be made, Brown will have a year of technique development, strength training, and adjustment to the NFL (including speed of the game, play recognition, lifestyle, etc.), which will be invaluable. So if Brown comes in next year and plays like a top 15 pick, then it was a good trade value wise (and if Peppers does leave, need wise). And based on his work ethic, intelligence, and current skill set, there is reason to think he won't show big improvement.

[AKPantherFan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know what your sayin, but with a QB class like the one coming up its hard to wonder about the what if's considering our problem at QB right now.

You dont get QB draft classes like this one every year with the chance to land good talent in the top 30 picks...

It can set us back another 5 years easily if not corrected....

[Urrymonster]

We dont need players who simply just give it their all. Im sure there are plenty of players that were busts that gave it their all but couldnt produce. We need players that actually produce for them to be worthy of the pick. Sorry but thats just the reality of things. Right now Brown is not producing much. Im sure he's a great guy in the locker room but thats not what we drafted him for.

You make it sound like the draft is an easy thing to predict! Face facts, to build a strong roster you have to use the odds in your favor. Pick the guys with the high potential and great work ethics and you will find the quality players.

Even if they have a ceiling, you know that the money you are investing in the player will at worst case turn out to be a fantastic role player and terrific locker room guy. These are the kind of players that stay in the league for 10 years and develop into the Rucker's and Minter's, the grizzled vet who can pass down their work ethics and knowledge to the players who are not so disciplined.

Best case scenario you have a very high quality player if their potential becomes reality.

Look at the teams who constantly go for the somewhat troubled but incredible potential players. They follow that idea throughout the draft in the idea that at least one or two will pan out. For every one who turns into the best in his position, you also get 4 or 5 who are out the league in 3 years.

That results in multiple free agency pick ups, a restriction on the cap because of that and ultimately one or two quality players but no depth of drive behind the team. I think the Pats are great at drafting like this. They take the occassional boom or bust player, but the inevitably pick the guys who work hard and play hard. The problem players are ushered out the door before you know it and because of that emphasis on working hard, they can even bring in a couple of player like Moss and get a completely different work ethic out of them. It's the vets they have in place, who take no nonsense, that forces all players to follow the mould. How many flashy picks do the Pats make?

So your team..would be the nicest high motor crap team in the NFL??..Because you put more stock in his motor??:mad2:

And what, you put stock in players with a tendency for causing teams trouble? High motor almost also comes with a high determination and high competitiveness. If you think that results in a nice player on the field then you clearly have NEVER played competitive sports.

I am talking about picking the players who have potential, but you know will at the least work their ass off each and every day. So in the worst case scenario you have a roster of players who bring it every day and every play. These are the teams who are always competing.

Both of you looked at the small things in what I said and you both seemed to have missed the point. Brown has a good deal of potential as well and could well turn out to be a star, but at the moment we have a guy who is giving to work his ass off to make the most of the talent he has. Compare that to another second round pick in Jarrett, which do you think has a chance of being on the roster beyond their rookie contracts?

We have a history of picking the high motor/character guys. That is what Beason was, you think he is a 'nice' guy on the field? How about Gross, Otah? Stewart? All of them bring it and they never take plays off. If you had a choice of that collection, or the sort that Oakland piece together, which would you choose? How about Cincinatti before they changed their approach this year? Detroit and their plethora of wide receivers who are no longer in the league?

[Zod]

Brown has a pro bowl future, I am not unhappy about the pick.

[Sandy Claws]

Anybody can buy a ticket.

He was a Meeks influenced pick, smaller speedy type guys on D. Get him to add 10 # in the gym and he's a Freeney copy.

[scpanther22]

And what, you put stock in players with a tendency for causing teams trouble? High motor almost also comes with a high determination and high competitiveness. If you think that results in a nice player on the field then you clearly have NEVER played competitive sports.

I am talking about picking the players who have potential, but you know will at the least work their ass off each and every day. So in the worst case scenario you have a roster of players who bring it every day and every play. These are the teams who are always competing.

Both of you looked at the small things in what I said and you both seemed to have missed the point. Brown has a good deal of potential as well and could well turn out to be a star, but at the moment we have a guy who is giving to work his ass off to make the most of the talent he has. Compare that to another second round pick in Jarrett, which do you think has a chance of being on the roster beyond their rookie contracts?

We have a history of picking the high motor/character guys. That is what Beason was, you think he is a 'nice' guy on the field? How about Gross, Otah? Stewart? All of them bring it and they never take plays off. If you had a choice of that collection, or the sort that Oakland piece together, which would you choose? How about Cincinatti before they changed their approach this year? Detroit and their plethora of wide receivers who are no longer in the league?

I put stock in players that produce and fit the system coming out of college...I like brown and think he will be good.But brown has no choice but to have a high motor at his size...but the way you explained you rather have a roster full of E.brown over J.peppers?