Salary Cap for the Horses in the Race**

[SetfreexX]

Let's not discuss the ''player'' let's look at the rumored destinations, and how these team's cap situations look as of today...3/16/22

New Orleans - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$-4,090,219
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$4,024,781

Cleveland Browns - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$13,452,601
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$16,977,601

Atlanta Falcons - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$17,424,973
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$17,424,973

Carolina Panthers - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$26,162,673
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$30,392,673

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's pretty clear Carolina would have the least amount of work to do to ''fit'' the salary (35M for 2022) and with an immediate extension as this would apply to all teams interested could lower his cap number to help with the transition. 

With the NTC available, it will be really interesting to see how these other destinations make the numbers work as they'd need to do the following...

Cap Space Needed to be created: (Based on ''With All'' and round up)

NO - 40M

CLE - 23M

ATL - 18M

CAR - 10M

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

With factors like these in place the winning bid will have to do some cap gymnastics to make it work, it's been reported HOU prefers not to deal in the AFC, and the player prefers a warm weather location (SEA was not even given the opportunity to meet based on reports). 

With that in mind it feels more like CLE was brought in to drive up the cost for the out of conference bidders, NO / ATL / CAR. 

It's interesting that ATL is in this race considering Matt Ryan's contract -- it's unlikely he'd restructure to accommodate a deal to be traded elsewhere and IF released he has a dead cap hit of 55.25M -- Not to mention the cupboards are bare at the skill position, Ridley suspended for the year, Cordarell is a FA who could likely cash in elsewhere, and that just leaves Kyle Pitts.

Looking at the situation in NO, just having to create the 40M in cap even with their history of cap navigation is a huge amount ''just to fit the player''; take into additional account filling out the roster, and draft picks. This effort would be a considerable challenge but obviously worth the trouble if they're the choice. Aside from that they are thin offensively as well; Armstead is a free agent, Kamara could be facing suspension after the issues in Vegas, the only established receiver is Michael Thomas and we've all seen the Diva he can be with no other real threats behind him, the TE position is also a ''?''. My question there is how would they build around him, and that defense is a bit older / expensive. This also goes without saying, as much as you may hate him, there's no Sean Payton; it's Dennis Allen, the consistency on offense at least that he provided won't be there.

Finally, looking at Carolina, even if they're not the ''1st'' choice, we are probably the best landing spot for a chance to have success moving forward, we have the least amount of work to do to make the trade possible, and have more young talent to help offset the lack of draft capitol once a trade is completed. To me Rhule is not an attractive proposition much like Allen in New Orleans, at the very least I'd anticipate the Carolinas would embrace him given the Clemson ties. Depending on what we'd have to give up, I think we're in the best position to lose some pieces, but still be in position to add if we're able to sign ''the player'' as we have the most cap and would require the least work to fit him in. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

With some of these factors in mind, my head says Carolina makes the most sense, but these things are not always about that. 

I'm not for or against the move, as I think trading back and allocating assets for day two and a future 1st while adding a rookie this year makes the most sense in the long run. However I am not an owner with 4 straight losing seasons, nor a coach with just 10 wins in 2 years either. I still blame them for not taking IMO Fields who had the most upside between him and Jones last year as we could be in a position of BPA, trade back to offset the picks from the Darnold deal while continuing to build a roster with the value of a rookie contract at QB. 

 

[Shocker]

Great work @SetfreexX

[Prowler2k18]

2 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Let's not discuss the ''player'' let's look at the rumored destinations, and how these team's cap situations look as of today...3/16/22

New Orleans - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$-4,090,219
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$4,024,781

Cleveland Browns - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$13,452,601
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$16,977,601

Atlanta Falcons - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$17,424,973
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$17,424,973

Carolina Panthers - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$26,162,673
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$30,392,673

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's pretty clear Carolina would have the least amount of work to do to ''fit'' the salary (35M for 2022) and with an immediate extension as this would apply to all teams interested could lower his cap number to help with the transition. 

With the NTC available, it will be really interesting to see how these other destinations make the numbers work as they'd need to do the following...

Cap Space Needed to be created: (Based on ''With All'' and round up)

NO - 40M

CLE - 23M

ATL - 18M

CAR - 10M

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

With factors like these in place the winning bid will have to do some cap gymnastics to make it work, it's been reported HOU prefers not to deal in the AFC, and the player prefers a warm weather location (SEA was not even given the opportunity to meet based on reports). 

With that in mind it feels more like CLE was brought in to drive up the cost for the out of conference bidders, NO / ATL / CAR. 

It's interesting that ATL is in this race considering Matt Ryan's contract -- it's unlikely he'd restructure to accommodate a deal to be traded elsewhere and IF released he has a dead cap hit of 55.25M -- Not to mention the cupboards are bare at the skill position, Ridley suspended for the year, Cordarell is a FA who could likely cash in elsewhere, and that just leaves Kyle Pitts.

Looking at the situation in NO, just having to create the 40M in cap even with their history of cap navigation is a huge amount ''just to fit the player''; take into additional account filling out the roster, and draft picks. This effort would be a considerable challenge but obviously worth the trouble if they're the choice. Aside from that they are thin offensively as well; Armstead is a free agent, Kamara could be facing suspension after the issues in Vegas, the only established receiver is Michael Thomas and we've all seen the Diva he can be with no other real threats behind him, the TE position is also a ''?''. My question there is how would they build around him, and that defense is a bit older / expensive. This also goes without saying, as much as you may hate him, there's no Sean Payton; it's Dennis Allen, the consistency on offense at least that he provided won't be there.

Finally, looking at Carolina, even if they're not the ''1st'' choice, we are probably the best landing spot for a chance to have success moving forward, we have the least amount of work to do to make the trade possible, and have more young talent to help offset the lack of draft capitol once a trade is completed. To me Rhule is not an attractive proposition much like Allen in New Orleans, at the very least I'd anticipate the Carolinas would embrace him given the Clemson ties. Depending on what we'd have to give up, I think we're in the best position to lose some pieces, but still be in position to add if we're able to sign ''the player'' as we have the most cap and would require the least work to fit him in. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

With some of these factors in mind, my head says Carolina makes the most sense, but these things are not always about that. 

I'm not for or against the move, as I think trading back and allocating assets for day two and a future 1st while adding a rookie this year makes the most sense in the long run. However I am not an owner with 4 straight losing seasons, nor a coach with just 10 wins in 2 years either. I still blame them for not taking IMO Fields who had the most upside between him and Jones last year as we could be in a position of BPA, trade back to offset the picks from the Darnold deal while continuing to build a roster with the value of a rookie contract at QB. 

 

Nice breakdown…thanks!

Edited March 16, 2022 by Prowler2k18

[Doc Holiday]

2 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Let's not discuss the ''player'' let's look at the rumored destinations, and how these team's cap situations look as of today...3/16/22

New Orleans - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$-4,090,219
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$4,024,781

Cleveland Browns - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$13,452,601
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$16,977,601

Atlanta Falcons - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$17,424,973
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$17,424,973

Carolina Panthers - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/

Cap Space (w/All)									$26,162,673
Cap Space (w/Top 51)									$30,392,673

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's pretty clear Carolina would have the least amount of work to do to ''fit'' the salary (35M for 2022) and with an immediate extension as this would apply to all teams interested could lower his cap number to help with the transition. 

With the NTC available, it will be really interesting to see how these other destinations make the numbers work as they'd need to do the following...

Cap Space Needed to be created: (Based on ''With All'' and round up)

NO - 40M

CLE - 23M

ATL - 18M

CAR - 10M

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

With factors like these in place the winning bid will have to do some cap gymnastics to make it work, it's been reported HOU prefers not to deal in the AFC, and the player prefers a warm weather location (SEA was not even given the opportunity to meet based on reports). 

With that in mind it feels more like CLE was brought in to drive up the cost for the out of conference bidders, NO / ATL / CAR. 

It's interesting that ATL is in this race considering Matt Ryan's contract -- it's unlikely he'd restructure to accommodate a deal to be traded elsewhere and IF released he has a dead cap hit of 55.25M -- Not to mention the cupboards are bare at the skill position, Ridley suspended for the year, Cordarell is a FA who could likely cash in elsewhere, and that just leaves Kyle Pitts.

Looking at the situation in NO, just having to create the 40M in cap even with their history of cap navigation is a huge amount ''just to fit the player''; take into additional account filling out the roster, and draft picks. This effort would be a considerable challenge but obviously worth the trouble if they're the choice. Aside from that they are thin offensively as well; Armstead is a free agent, Kamara could be facing suspension after the issues in Vegas, the only established receiver is Michael Thomas and we've all seen the Diva he can be with no other real threats behind him, the TE position is also a ''?''. My question there is how would they build around him, and that defense is a bit older / expensive. This also goes without saying, as much as you may hate him, there's no Sean Payton; it's Dennis Allen, the consistency on offense at least that he provided won't be there.

Finally, looking at Carolina, even if they're not the ''1st'' choice, we are probably the best landing spot for a chance to have success moving forward, we have the least amount of work to do to make the trade possible, and have more young talent to help offset the lack of draft capitol once a trade is completed. To me Rhule is not an attractive proposition much like Allen in New Orleans, at the very least I'd anticipate the Carolinas would embrace him given the Clemson ties. Depending on what we'd have to give up, I think we're in the best position to lose some pieces, but still be in position to add if we're able to sign ''the player'' as we have the most cap and would require the least work to fit him in. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

With some of these factors in mind, my head says Carolina makes the most sense, but these things are not always about that. 

I'm not for or against the move, as I think trading back and allocating assets for day two and a future 1st while adding a rookie this year makes the most sense in the long run. However I am not an owner with 4 straight losing seasons, nor a coach with just 10 wins in 2 years either. I still blame them for not taking IMO Fields who had the most upside between him and Jones last year as we could be in a position of BPA, trade back to offset the picks from the Darnold deal while continuing to build a roster with the value of a rookie contract at QB. 

 

His cap hit for this year would actually be $24m fwiw. $16m Houston would still have to eat(this year). Next his hit will be back up to $40m

[Louie]

Great post. I think Carolina makes by far the most sense. Simply because of the offensive pieces we have already, and we could add Fuller (WR "the player" played with in Houston) easily. Really, can the Saints sign "the player" and sign Fuller and sign Armstead? Is that even possible? People keep saying "cap doesn't matter" you can somehow make it happen! Every time I see this I get p*ssed off. Really? I know I shouldn't be that emotionally invested in it, but I am. It seems like Carolina usually follows the regular salary cap dynamics, but the Saints somehow has some salary cap magic space they create every single year to sign whatever players they want with no problem. 

[Toomers]

15 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

His cap hit for this year would actually be $24m fwiw. $16m Houston would still have to eat(this year). Next his hit will be back up to $40m

False

[SetfreexX]

54 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Great work @SetfreexX

Thank you.

[SetfreexX]

44 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

His cap hit for this year would actually be $24m fwiw. $16m Houston would still have to eat(this year). Next his hit will be back up to $40m

 

Deshaun Watson

QB

$35,000,000

$5,400,000

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap/

The 35M is his BASE salary, the part that HOU ''is not'' responsible for in a trade -- CAR / ATL / CLE / NO would pay that.

They are on the hook for guaranteed money owed - the 5.4M

Obviously things like salary / who pays what can ALSO be negotiated -- see the Teddy trade to DEN as a recent example. 

[Doc Holiday]

1 minute ago, SetfreexX said:

 

Deshaun Watson

QB

$35,000,000

$5,400,000

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap/

The 35M is his BASE salary, the part that HOU ''is not'' responsible for in a trade -- CAR / ATL / CLE / NO would pay that.

They are on the hook for guaranteed money owed - the 5.4M

Obviously things like salary / who pays what can ALSO be negotiated -- see the Teddy trade to DEN as a recent example. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/houston-texans/
 

select pre-June 1st trade* and look at his number. They have to eat the 16m whoever gets him only has $24m this year

Edited March 16, 2022 by Doc Holiday

[SetfreexX]

39 minutes ago, Louie said:

Great post. I think Carolina makes by far the most sense. Simply because of the offensive pieces we have already, and we could add Fuller (WR "the player" played with in Houston) easily. Really, can the Saints sign "the player" and sign Fuller and sign Armstead? Is that even possible? People keep saying "cap doesn't matter" you can somehow make it happen! Every time I see this I get p*ssed off. Really? I know I shouldn't be that emotionally invested in it, but I am. It seems like Carolina usually follows the regular salary cap dynamics, but the Saints somehow has some salary cap magic space they create every single year to sign whatever players they want with no problem. 

They do this by restructuring contracts, and turning the base value for the current season into a signing bonus which is prorated over the life of the contract, even across ''voidable'' years. 

By doing so they can lower the cost of a player on the current seasons cap, and using the basic fact that the salary cap will increase each year they're able to continue this trend of ''over the cap, then back under the cap''. 

There's been some times where it's limited them as every so often the money catches up, but when you have likely a HOF coach, and QB, you can generally get away with it. We saw an example of it catching up to them with Armstead hitting free agency.

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/houston-texans/
 

select pre-June 1st trade* and look at his number. They have to eat the 16m whoever gets him only has $24m this year

That’s the remainder of his signing bonus. 16.2M at 5.4M per year. It doesn’t affect the 35M guaranteed base salary that he will be paid by any team that acquires him. Or the 37M he is guaranteed next year.

[onmyown]

What I’d add is that teams who want Watson will likely be looking at 2023. I feel a half a season suspension is reasonable to believe since Rothlisburger had two cases, both civil, and served a 6 game suspension. 8 games for 22 cases, is not unfathomable.

With this in mind, things become easier. Trading or letting guys go to make room and plan for 2023 is probably is not that big of a deal - a fire sale is an easier pill to swallow knowing you’re already more or less giving up 2022 season for a new franchise QB, and will be planning ahead with a cap growth in mind. That will be a factor imo.

[SetfreexX]

3 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/houston-texans/
 

select pre-June 1st trade* and look at his number. They have to eat the 16m whoever gets him only has $24m this year

I'm just dealing with the surface numbers. This was designed to provide a summary and the 35M is what is referenced in most reports so I kept my thoughts tied to that amount. 

If you're referring to OTC as I used Spotrac -- the 16.2M is the dead money, and the 24M is the cap savings. 

If the trade is made and designated as a ''post'' June 1st trade -- the 5.4M is the dead money, and the 35M is the cap savings. 

So we are both right, I'm going off the one that is more so in HOU's favor / reported on the most that I have seen at least -- ie: the one with less dead money for HOU and most beneficial to them cap wise**

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/houston-texans/

[OceanPanther]

Keep in mind, these number are all before a deal is done.  We don't know what any team will be giving up. It won't be just draft picks

Example :  what if Matt Ryan is part of the deal Atlanta offers ?  what would change for them ?