Tepper hired a private investigator to look into Deshaun Watson

[joemac]

49 minutes ago, ickmule said:

So we will have an elite QB with no talent around him and be set back decades. Haven’t we already tried the elite player route with not much talent around him ? This franchise is a rolling circus. 

Decades?  Really?  Don't you think thats a little hyperbole?  Yeah that elite player with nothing else beside him took us to 15-1, won the MVP and almost won it all. And what makes you think that they will not build the team around Watson?  There are plenty of other ways to build a good team besides first round draft picks.  I mean, poo....look at our recent first rounders.  Not exactly lighting the world on fire, are they?

[thefuzz]

17 minutes ago, joemac said:

Decades?  Really?  Don't you think thats a little hyperbole?  Yeah that elite player with nothing else beside him took us to 15-1, won the MVP and almost won it all. And what makes you think that they will not build the team around Watson?  There are plenty of other ways to build a good team besides first round draft picks.  I mean, poo....look at our recent first rounders.  Not exactly lighting the world on fire, are they?

DJ has been good, not great, but that's fine, he wasn't in the top 5 or 10.

Brown and Burns have been underwhelming.

Jury is still out on Horn, but he seems like a player.

[joemac]

4 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

DJ has been good, not great, but that's fine, he wasn't in the top 5 or 10.

Brown and Burns have been underwhelming.

Jury is still out on Horn, but he seems like a player.

My point is, nobody who is like "Damn, hes an amazing player, no way can we lose him!" All those guys are utterly replaceable, probably with guys who are cheaper too.  The draft is always a crap shoot.  I respect the Rams model recently.  Take the known studs, versus the unknown draft picks.  And in this case, Watson is probably a better player and more productive than any 2 first rounders in the next 2 drafts.

[SmokinwithWilly]

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

My point is, nobody who is like "Damn, hes an amazing player, no way can we lose him!" All those guys are utterly replaceable, probably with guys who are cheaper too.  The draft is always a crap shoot.  I respect the Rams model recently.  Take the known studs, versus the unknown draft picks.  And in this case, Watson is probably a better player and more productive than any 2 first rounders in the next 2 drafts.

The Rams are acquiring players that want to come play for a shot at a SB. Watson would be coming to the same situation he just forced himself out of in Houston. We would have to give up 3 1st rounders. His contract expires in 4 years which means we would have to extend him before it ends if he would agree to it. He's already shown he doesn't want to play for a bad team, so would he agree to stay here or move to a SB contender? There's a lot to factor in besides just draft picks. 

[joemac]

9 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The Rams are acquiring players that want to come play for a shot at a SB. Watson would be coming to the same situation he just forced himself out of in Houston. We would have to give up 3 1st rounders. His contract expires in 4 years which means we would have to extend him before it ends if he would agree to it. He's already shown he doesn't want to play for a bad team, so would he agree to stay here or move to a SB contender? There's a lot to factor in besides just draft picks. 

Well you have to start somewhere.  Just because we are not good now, does not mean that we cannot build something good over the next couple years.  Beginning that with one of the best QBs in the league is a good start.  The Rams were not the Rams they are now when their GM embarked on his plan.  It took years and years of moves and acquiring players.  

[thefuzz]

28 minutes ago, joemac said:

My point is, nobody who is like "Damn, hes an amazing player, no way can we lose him!" All those guys are utterly replaceable, probably with guys who are cheaper too.  The draft is always a crap shoot.  I respect the Rams model recently.  Take the known studs, versus the unknown draft picks.  And in this case, Watson is probably a better player and more productive than any 2 first rounders in the next 2 drafts.

I'm not disagreeing with you...our 1st's have been just OK since Luke was drafted...with the exception of CMC who has now been hurt for 2 seasons.

However, the Rams things isn't a good comparison...IMO.

They have a desirable location (not for me), dollars to be made off field, great weather, a great head coach, and a track record of being pretty damn good over the last few years.  We don't have much of that except for the weather.

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 minutes ago, joemac said:

Well you have to start somewhere.  Just because we are not good now, does not mean that we cannot build something good over the next couple years.  Beginning that with one of the best QBs in the league is a good start.  The Rams were not the Rams they are now when their GM embarked on his plan.  It took years and years of moves and acquiring players.  

No disagreement from me about starting somewhere. Also in the mix is do you think Rhule is the one to pull this off? Judging by the moves made in the second season I don't think that he was or ever could be. And also from what we know, Rhule/Tepper or steering this ship, not our GM. How much confidence do you have in Rhule to get this right. Currently I have zero and that doesn't even include any legal issues. This feels like a desperate move by a desperate coach and owner trying to save themselves. 

[ForJimmy]

Why are we so afraid of drafting a QB? Last time we did it, it worked out good with Cam. Grier was a late 3rd so I don’t really think he was ever considered a potential starter. 

[frankw]

3 hours ago, amcoolio said:

The Tepper hate is way overboard on here. He's only had the team a few years, he did the right thing by not immediately making changes like a lot of owners do but evaluate the current regime, he's been aggressive in trying to get a franchise QB according to sources and doesn't mind paying any amount for the coaching staff. He took a gamble on Rhule (who was a hot coaching candidate btw) and possibly lost, and now he's a "football dumbass"? Is there anyone on here that really could have done better? Almost all of you would have hired Rhule and exactly all of you were orgasming over the Joe Brady hire. 

I tend to agree in part that hate has been getting out of hand. It should be noted though not to confuse that with legitimate criticism. And just as David Tepper doesn’t need everyone in the fanbase despising him he also does not need his own unpaid staff of yes men here who will rise to his defense bc he is a billionaire. But as for the coaching hire most would agree a consultant would have been quite beneficial. Many folks took a look at Rhule's record in college and weren't exactly blown away. The selling point was the reputation as a "builder". But looking at oline and QB and our odd collecting of cornerbacks that hasn't exactly been a plus

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

I don’t want Watson to save Rhule’s job

Isn't Watson the guy who wanted more of a say in Texans management/coaching decisions?

Pretty sure it was an issue of contention until his massage envy popped up.

If Watson settles his legal issues and comes to Carolina, I doubt Deshaun's tolerance for Rhule's three ring circus lasts more than a season.  Then Watson will force Rhule out the door, just like Rhule forced Hurney to take a hike.

[USDepartmentOfSavagery]

Not gonna read this thread and subject myself to Mr. Scott’s king of the castle talk. 

[pantherj]

We wouldn't be bringing Watson here to have a winning team in 2022. The 2022 team is not going deep into the playoffs with Watson or a young Joe Montana. That is off the table. We're not one player away from the playoffs, even if that player is a QB.

Why bring Watson here at all? Our o-line now has a LT in Christensen, and a RT in Moton. Our center will be back off IR, and Deonte should be ready to play RG. The LG spot can be upgraded in free agency, or the draft. So that would put Watson behind a shaky but not terrible o-line if things go well. Watson would be throwing to CMC, DJ, an excited Robby, and a more experienced Terrace. Sounds good to me. I'll watch that offense. We're not going to take the league by storm or anything, but we can be competitive.

Our defense has a lot of talent, but the Texans will want two players. So we're basically not going to have a good defense in 2022 with Watson. We will need to continue the rebuilding process.

The outlook for 2022 with Watson would be sub-.500, or maybe a little better. There is no saving 2022. Anything we do is for 2023 and beyond.

The next draft would be about using 2nd and later round picks to fill in missing pieces on defense and the o-line, and free agency would help as well.

The worst thing you can be in the NFL is a team without a high quality QB. Anything is better than being without a QB. Not having 1st rounders is not the end of the world, but not having a QB is a disaster 100% of the time.

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, pantherj said:

We wouldn't be bringing Watson here to have a winning team in 2022. The 2022 team is not going deep into the playoffs with Watson or a young Joe Montana. That is off the table. We're not one player away from the playoffs, even if that player is a QB.

Why bring Watson here at all? Our o-line now has a LT in Christensen, and a RT in Moton. Our center will be back off IR, and Deonte should be ready to play RG. The LG spot can be upgraded in free agency, or the draft. So that would put Watson behind a shaky but not terrible o-line if things go well. Watson would be throwing to CMC, DJ, an excited Robby, and a more experienced Terrace. Sounds good to me. I'll watch that offense. We're not going to take the league by storm or anything, but we can be competitive.

Our defense has a lot of talent, but the Texans will want two players. So we're basically not going to have a good defense in 2022 with Watson. We will need to continue the rebuilding process.

The outlook for 2022 with Watson would be sub-.500, or maybe a little better. There is no saving 2022. Anything we do is for 2023 and beyond.

The next draft would be about using 2nd and later round picks to fill in missing pieces on defense and the o-line, and free agency would help as well.

The worst thing you can be in the NFL is a team without a high quality QB. Anything is better than being without a QB. Not having 1st rounders is not the end of the world, but not having a QB is a disaster 100% of the time.

Okay, playing devil's advocate what's your plan of building a winner post-2022 after trading away multiple 1st and 2nd round picks as well as a couple of key young starters?

[pantherj]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Okay, playing devil's advocate what's your plan of building a winner post-2022 after trading away multiple 1st and 2nd round picks as well as a couple of key young starters?

I don't know that the Texans will be getting 2nd rounders as well. We really don't know know exactly what they'll want, but it will be a lot. I don't think we should offer 3 1sts, multiple seconds, and two players. Hell no. I'd need to know what I have exactly moving forward to make a plan. There is a point where I'd walk away from the deal.