Shaq Thompson - RESTRUCTURED Contract**

[Wes21]

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

Don’t these years end up creating dead cap though? Or is that not how it works?

You are correct, they are "dead cap hits."

[TheSpecialJuan]

Now extend Darnold  

[thunderraiden]

53 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Thing is - they are either way.

The difference is, this way cripples the future.

It’s just really hard for fans to envision losing Gilmore, possibly Jackson, and Reddick, seeing Rhule evaluate FA olineman wasting more money on Irv/Elf type signings, starting center is gone (though he wasn’t great, have a single top 100 pick and then marching down to the field with Darnold or Tribuski or a rookie and pulling out a winning season.

I mean it’s a sign when worthwhile players and coach don’t want to come here. 

You’re basically asking Rhule to do much much better with an even worse team than he already had.

It’s not hard to see why fans don’t really thinks that’s possibly or being realistic, and so to fug up the future Hurney style to do it is a bit confusing.

But you’re totally right. Rhule and Tep have fought tooth and nail to avoid a proper, inevitable rebuild and it’s baffeling.

I know they say hindsight is 20/20 but it was so obvious in 2020 with a freakin covid year of all things that we should have just went in with Cam on his final year, he would have played cause thats who he is regardless of him asking for a longer deal. Or poo, cut Cam still and just go in with Will Grier. Tank the fug out of the season like all the other owners do in practice but claim they dont when its time to rebuild and draft one of the stud QB's in 2021, we would still have our 2nd Round pick this year and maybe even some O-line help since we would have had higher draft picks in the 2nd round in 2021 also. Nope made too much sense, lets shoot for 8-8 at best with Teddy Bridgewater, they lets eat his salary, dump him after a year and eat some more shitty players salary instead of a proper rebuild.

[thunderraiden]

12 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Exactly. We are just postponing our real competitive seasons. Both of our SB runs started with shitty seasons where we were able to get back to back high picks and got Peppers/Gross and Cam/Luke. Instead of just letting nature take it’s course and tanking like we did before we are giving away draft picks and girding ourselves for another FA spree to keep us in the 5-8 win crowd of just good enough to win a marquee game or two, not get a great rookie QB and not contend.

Yea Jerry was actually smart about it being a league of parity. Just like the other owners, obviously proved by recent events, that know its time to tank when you need a rebuild Jerry let the team hit rockbottom then draft a QB at the top of the draft multiple times while here and got lucky with a couple FA's. Tepper tries to re-invent the wheel and let the other owners trick him into competing while rebuilding. I know they had to be laughing their asses off when they saw us pick up Teddy Bridgewater, then do the same stupid poo the next year with Darnold, instead with 5th-year options and draft picks.

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, electricbluecats said:

In a rising cap environment it always makes sense to defer cap hits as much as possible so the $$$ takes up a lower % of the cap, it makes the deals cheaper. The catch is you have to make the base salary money guaranteed so you're sacrificing the ability to easily cut/trade a player in return for cap flexibility. A restructure doesn't mean the contract was bad or there's some mistake being correct. All big money contracts are signed knowing you will eventually restructure if you want to keep the player or cut before you hit the large cap hits on the back end on the deal.

Restructuring is perfectly fine as long as you're selective. Shaq is one of the only players that 100% be on the roster this year and won't be cut or traded, so it makes sense. Where you get into trouble is the mess with Paradis last year where he clearly should have been cut but now we're incurring a large cap charge because they thought it was really worth hanging on to him last year and decided to restructure.

Those years on Paradis' deal are voidable, aka he won't see that money.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

Those years on Paradis' deal are voidable, aka he won't see that money.

He already has that money. 

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

Shaq’s 5M puts it at 31M. 
 

Take off 3M for Thomas’ first year

5-6M for draft class

3M or more for practice squad

1.5M for 52-53rd players. 
 

  Now it’s back to about 18M. Anyone that goes on IR has to be replaced Need some room to operate during season. For a team with the worst QB situation in the NFL. As well as OL. So how much help is that going to bring when every team with more assets wants these players as well. And how many will want to come play for a lame duck HC that mortgaging the teams future. That’s where the team is at right now. 

One, I was referring to moving salary into 23, and 24 for Moton, and Shaq, secondly, that's still better than having all those things count towards the cap we had available prior to restructures. 

People need to also remember on extensions the big money DOES NOT have to be in the first year aka 2022, those guarantees can be spread out over the contract -- as bad as Shaq's deal was in some people's eyes, he never counted more than 10M, 7M and 8M were they other hits. This year the 1st year BIG money set in he could have been cut and saved 5-6M, instead he's restructured, is retained AND the team still saves that 5-6M. 

It's all about how the money is manipulated, and where it is manipulated, it's where Samir's value is felt the most, having an ''expert'' in that dept. 

I'm not a Rhule fan, but the way the team has operated in regard to money and where it is / goes under Fitterer and Samir has been fairly impressive. 

I mean in a cap strict year in 21 for the ENTIRE NFL, we added a good amount of FA's that worked, and others that did not (Erving / Elf) -- none the less, what's important is they maneuvered the cap efficiently. 

[ThPantherFan]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Why? Something is getting ready to go down. 

We need the cap space because of the waste rule built up.

[ThPantherFan]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

This team is rudderless and it shows.

Need to chop of that rudder (rule) and install a new one.

[SetfreexX]

You're missing the point, with the voidable years when we have over 100M, and 200M in 23, and 24. 

The point of that is in those years you will eat some dead money, but with the COVID cap hit issue you could not avoid that and teams, aka all teams had to account for it. No one is calling it a viable strategy, as bad as Elf was Matt played well prior to IR. 

People are reacting like we're decades into ''moving cap'' down the road. The team is in good financial shape, yes they botched Darnold's 5th yeat, BUT I can understand why they did it when the ONLY other QBs at the time were Grier, and PJ. 

Point being is, we have the cap to move it forward, and we couldn't go into 2021 w/o a C, his original deal was inked before anyone knew a thing about Covid in Cam's last season starting in 2019. There was not a lot of options in that regard. 

 

[Aussie Tank]

We’re going Oline shopping in FA 

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

One, I was referring to moving salary into 23, and 24 for Moton, and Shaq, secondly, that's still better than having all those things count towards the cap we had available prior to restructures. 

People need to also remember on extensions the big money DOES NOT have to be in the first year aka 2022, those guarantees can be spread out over the contract -- as bad as Shaq's deal was in some people's eyes, he never counted more than 10M, 7M and 8M were they other hits. This year the 1st year BIG money set in he could have been cut and saved 5-6M, instead he's restructured, is retained AND the team still saves that 5-6M. 

It's all about how the money is manipulated, and where it is manipulated, it's where Samir's value is felt the most, having an ''expert'' in that dept. 

I'm not a Rhule fan, but the way the team has operated in regard to money and where it is / goes under Fitterer and Samir has been fairly impressive. 

I mean in a cap strict year in 21 for the ENTIRE NFL, we added a good amount of FA's that worked, and others that did not (Erving / Elf) -- none the less, what's important is they maneuvered the cap efficiently. 

Previous restructuring is why Shaq had that 19M cap hit this year. They have been kicking it down the road since they got here. And nothing about the salary cap management of Samir and this front office has been good. It’s embarrassingly bad. Where do you think all that cap space disappeared to. Why is a consistent 5 win team having to restructure just to field a below average team? A team picking in the top 10 shouldn’t have to kick money down the road. Contenders should. 
 

  He maneuvered 19M to a useless QB. 20M guaranteed to a WR who forgot how to catch. 15M guaranteed to 2 of the worst OL in the NFL on the first day of FA. 31M to Teddy for one year. Boston, 9.5M for one year. Weatherly 8M for one year, Okung 13M for 6-7games. KK Short -13M for 3 games. Roberts, Apple, Whitehead,  and how many more throwaways? The term “expert” is awful cheap to acquire these days. 

[electricbluecats]

14 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

Those years on Paradis' deal are voidable, aka he won't see that money.

Voidable years were already there when he signed the contract for spreading out the signing bonus money he already received. Either way, it's the cap hit we care about and they could have cut him last off season but the restructure resulted in an additional $10m in cap hit between last year and this year. Yes they needed a center last year, but an additional $10m for a year of Paradis? Everyone could see that was a bad idea. Just completely bungled that situation.

[Ivan The Awesome]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Thankfully it doesn't work like that.  But I'm with you on it not making any sense. I suspect they are pushing the cap hits down the road for some unknown reason. Whatever it is will probably not work out. 

At one point, i would have told you to stop being so pessimistic, but at this point, you're being realistic. Kind of sad.