BIGGER UPFRONT 4-2-5 DEFENSE

[Mr. Scot]

Base Nickel is what McDermott ran most of the time under Rivera.

Of course, he had Luke Kuechly and Thomas Davis

Given that our primary vulnerability has been to the run, I'm not sure this works for us (even with a beefed up front).

[Actionman0z]

1 hour ago, onmyown said:

So his best fit was not where he was a ROY finalist and would’ve won had Young not played a flashier position? And he fits in the FS where he does not display his best skills? Can you articulate to me what Chinn has shown at the NFL level at FS this far, that supersedes his year on the outside and justifies movement to a less valuable position despite thriving at the other? I’m genuinely curious of your analysis.

It’s not my analysis that matters or yours. What we write on here are opinions and conjecture. You either trust the staff or you don’t. I’m not advocating for that either way. All I’m saying is you’re not qualified to make the assessment, because you’re not an elite level talent evaluator. On paper he made way more plays closer the the box and LOS. That’s normal. The staff, and people who currently evaluate for the Panthers say his fit in the secondary is better for him long term as well as the team. My analysis he makes plays, and I’m glad he plays for Carolina. Good day sir. 

[onmyown]

3 hours ago, Actionman0z said:

It’s not my analysis that matters or yours. What we write on here are opinions and conjecture. You either trust the staff or you don’t. I’m not advocating for that either way. All I’m saying is you’re not qualified to make the assessment, because you’re not an elite level talent evaluator. On paper he made way more plays closer the the box and LOS. That’s normal. The staff, and people who currently evaluate for the Panthers say his fit in the secondary is better for him long term as well as the team. My analysis he makes plays, and I’m glad he plays for Carolina. Good day sir. 

Yea, that’s what I thought.

[raleigh-panther]

7 hours ago, Actionman0z said:

Because they were looking at his fit and career longevity. He made more plays around the ball year 1, staff knows that. Finding a blend that maximizes his skill set is what they are working towards. Why can’t the brainless on the board realize that? 

You mean, someone they drafted, someone who they watched play one year, saw the results when they changed his position in year 2, they weren’t smart enough to move him back?

I mean, it’s not like they scouted him, saw him in OTAs, camp, reviewed the tape every week in year 1 through year 2   Someone who was being talked about as RDPOY? 

how much longer are they going to look ‘at his fit and longevity’?   And since when does the NFL care about a player’s longevity ?  

no offense meant, but I don’t see it….apparently, I am one of the ‘brainless’  and that is certainly possible lol  but I don’t get this view, at all 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by raleigh-panther

[ColumbusCounty]

We traded in speed for power which is why we had trouble trying to stop the run. 

Gross Matos-Brown-NT-Burns 

Chinn - Shaq - Luvu 

Horn - Bouye 

Kenny Robinson - SS

Subtracting Carter Jr alone should improve our run defense. Bringing Chinn back down and starting Luvu also adds another dimension we didn't have last season. 

Bouye and Robinson both play with a certain temperament that I believe is always needed on a D (Luvu also). And Horn coming back 100% again makes us better.

We do need to find a starting caliber NT and SS. All that said, the defense is the least of our problems. 

[CPantherKing]

Doesn't matter what defense you play. The Panthers have Chinn, Shaq, and Burns out of position. No true Mike. The good news is the key to balancing this defense out is in the draft with Devin Lloyd filling the Mike. Perfect compliment to Shaq, Chinn, and Burns. I doubt the Panthers will realize it.

[philit99]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:06 PM, Woot said:

@ OwnMyOn: I agree with Chinn 100% being more of a linebacker/safety just say Strong Safety (SS)

IN a 4-2-5 Chinn can come down in to the box to help with blitzing and run-support Especially while having 4 true Corners on the field and JACKSON able to switch up becoming the Free Safety (FS) on any play or blitz plays because of his RANGE" If Carolina becomes more stout upfront JACKSON is *way more* valuable then GILMORE do to speed, range and ability to play Corner & Safety..

I want to know much more about the 2 in that 4-2-5. We better get two athletic and fast players for those spots. I do not want to see our yards given up by the run, without better linebackers. Luvu maybe, Luvu and Thompson, not sure. Please do not sell me on Jackson stopping the run. Eating a block of cheese has a better chance at stopping things that run than Jackson will.

[Woot]

@PHILIT99: Donte Jackson (wouldn't) be a focus of run-support or run-stopping he will be focused on Coverage & helping over top" he will be the 4th Corner on the field but also have safety duties mostly single high safety so Chinn can also come down and help with the run and Linebacker Coverage..

[philit99]

3 hours ago, Woot said:

@PHILIT99: Donte Jackson (wouldn't) be a focus of run-support or run-stopping he will be focused on Coverage & helping over top" he will be the 4th Corner on the field but also have safety duties mostly single high safety so Chinn can also come down and help with the run and Linebacker Coverage..

He would be when teams focus running directly at him, like they have for the last 3 years. I watched tons of tape on it. He got better towards the end of the season last year, but he is still a liability.

[LinvilleGorge]

IMO, Chinn's ideal role is as a cover 3 strong safety. Think prime Kam Chancellor in Seattle. That's a system where the FS covers the deep third (think prime Earl Thomas in Seattle) and the SS covers underneath in the mid-range or drops down into the box.

We need a legit over the top FS to free him up to do this. That's the type of player we really don't have any history with. We've always prioritized SS types at safety. Deon Grant is probably the closest we have in our history to fitting the bill.

[Michael G]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:42 PM, KillerKat said:

Or just put him where he should've been at SS. He is not a FS. It is so stupid to have him back peddle as a FS. Keep him closer to the LOS as a SS. 

Chinn had a lot of success as the big nickel in year 1 and i like him in that role, but last year he was the best option we had on the back end. I hope we bring in a true FS to help us fill that role and that would allow Chinn to truly line up anywhere on our defense. He would be a terror I think.

[SetfreexX]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:16 PM, KillerKat said:

Only Rhule can look at All-Pro potential in Chinn and be like "Nah fam, I'll just play you out of position because reasons."

I'm all for Rhule slander, but on THIS roster who you really trusting as the FS?

Sean Chandler a 4.65 guy with limited range

Juston Burriss a Corner turned Safety who been depth his whole career almost (see time with CLE Browns) as a 4.53 guy (at least more respectable)

Hartsfield an UDFA became the nickel due to suspension (Bouye); and was hurt himself later on, and played HB some in 2021.

And no one here liked Tre' Boston there and even so he was cut. 

So really Chinn ''based on the roster we had'' he was the least likely to give up big plays deep. I think it was more necessity, than idiocy in this case. He did spend some time in the box though not as much, I'd anticipate an addition of a FS to free Chinn up some more. 

2020 - 117 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack

2021 - 107 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack

(The production was there, just not in the same fashion / impact)

The Christensen stuff was complete and utter idiocy, as was the handling of the QB position. 

[BrianS]

3 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

I'm all for Rhule slander, but on THIS roster who you really trusting as the FS?

Sean Chandler a 4.65 guy with limited range

Juston Burriss a Corner turned Safety who been depth his whole career almost (see time with CLE Browns) as a 4.53 guy (at least more respectable)

Hartsfield an UDFA became the nickel due to suspension (Bouye); and was hurt himself later on, and played HB some in 2021.

And no one here liked Tre' Boston there and even so he was cut. 

So really Chinn ''based on the roster we had'' he was the least likely to give up big plays deep. I think it was more necessity, than idiocy in this case. He did spend some time in the box though not as much, I'd anticipate an addition of a FS to free Chinn up some more. 

2020 - 117 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack

2021 - 107 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack

(The production was there, just not in the same fashion / impact)

The Christensen stuff was complete and utter idiocy, as was the handling of the QB position. 

While what you say is true, the point that needs to be considered is that after 2020, the staff KNEW what they had with Chinn.  They KNEW they had a box safety / LB who could conceivably be an All Pro in that role.  And un-apologetically moved him.

All of your assumptions about others on the roster not being up to the FS role could be right.  But who was it who went thru 2021 Free Agency and failed to fix that?

The one thing I can give them is that Burris was injured an awful lot.  However, even giving them that card to play, they used Chinn largely as a FS even when Burris was available.

It would be criminal to go into this year with Chinn penciled as the FS.  We'll see what they do.