Thoughts on trading DJ Moore?

[joemac]

Absolutely I would.  His production is utterly replaceable. Hes pretty much the exact same guy he was on Day 1 of his rookie year.  Hes a nice little player, but hardly a franchise #1 WR.  He would do really well as a #2 on a good offense. 

[SCO96]

13 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

DJ is a number 2 receiver, and paying him any more than that would be a mistake in my opinion.  We already fugged up by extending Robbie Anderson instead of locking in DJ for a similar amount.

I like DJ but he leaves a lot to be desired in the route running department.  He accumulates aggregate yards, but he's invisible in a lot of big situations in games.  On top of that, he could probably use a fresh start, since his body language looked absolutely miserable out there at times.

 

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

Absolutely I would.  His production is utterly replaceable. Hes pretty much the exact same guy he was on Day 1 of his rookie year.  Hes a nice little player, but hardly a franchise #1 WR.  He would do really well as a #2 on a good offense. 

If DJ Moore is really nothing more than a #2 receiver with replaceable production why does the pro-trade faction on this forum think there's even a trade market for him in the first place? If the above opinion is the mindset around the rest of the NFL, what do you really think the Panthers can expect to as trade compensation if DJ were dealt to another team?

The opinions seem to be "DJ's a nice player, but he isn't a #1. He's a #2. Let't trade him and pick up some high draft choices in return".  I wouldn't give more than a 3rd draft choice for that type of WR. 

Would you guys be happy with that?

 

[joemac]

1 minute ago, SCO96 said:

 

If DJ Moore is really nothing more than a #2 receiver with replaceable production why does the pro-trade faction on this forum think there's even a trade market for him in the first place? If the above opinion is the mindset around the rest of the NFL, what do you really think the Panthers can expect to as trade compensation if DJ were dealt to another team?

The opinions seem to be "DJ's a nice player, but he isn't a #1. He's a #2. Let't trade him and pick up some high draft choices in return".  I wouldn't give more than a 3rd draft choice for that type of WR. 

Would you guys be happy with that?

 

[ForJimmy]

DJ’s skillset in a Shanahan offense would be deadly. 

[SHU]

DJ would shone brighter with a great passer throwing to him.  The past few years he has not had that.  He runs good routes.  He doesnt drop many.  He can run.  Imagine Burrow, Mahomes, Stafford, Brady or another top QB with accuracy getting the ball to him.  He would be top 5 receiver in the league, IMO. 

Trade him only for multiple 1 to 3 round picks or a solid vet and a pick or 2?  Maybe.  Not sure how much interest we would get though...

[PNW_PantherMan]

2 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

The opinions seem to be "DJ's a nice player, but he isn't a #1. He's a #2. Let't trade him and pick up some high draft choices in return".  I wouldn't give more than a 3rd draft choice for that type of WR. 

Would you guys be happy with that?

The only reason I would be "pro trade" is because I think he will fetch quite a bit in the FA market, and I don't think he will be worth that amount.  If all we can get is a 3rd, we'd be better off just waiting and collecting the comp pick when he walks.

Here's the PFF best WRs for 2021 and 2020.  How many of those guys would you take DJ Moore over?  Look around the league and he is not on a lot of these guys' level.

Just because the Panthers have only had a couple good WRs in our history doesn't mean we should pretend DJ Moore is something he is not.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-wide-receiver-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-wide-receiver-rankings

[OneBadCat]

No. Adamantly No. 

We trade him and we just create another hole at WR. Anderson has shown he can’t be trusted and TMJ is unproven.

DJ is only 23/24. At this pace he might end up being one of our best we’ve ever drafted. He also hasn’t peaked yet. 

[grimesgoat]

He's due to make 11m this year.  I'd try to extend him - 3 years 42m with 15m signing bonus.  Salary of 1m, 13m, 13m.  Gives us 5m in cap savings for 2022.

If he says no, trade him to Philly for their 16th pick.  They need a good #2 possession receiver.

Let Marshall and Shi play.   

[Mage]

A lot of people on this forum are going to be looking real stupid if DJ Moore ever gets to play in a functional offense with a good QB.

[SCO96]

18 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The only reason I would be "pro trade" is because I think he will fetch quite a bit in the FA market, and I don't think he will be worth that amount.  If all we can get is a 3rd, we'd be better off just waiting and collecting the comp pick when he walks.

Here's the PFF best WRs for 2021 and 2020.  How many of those guys would you take DJ Moore over?  Look around the league and he is not on a lot of these guys' level.

Just because the Panthers have only had a couple good WRs in our history doesn't mean we should pretend DJ Moore is something he is not.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-wide-receiver-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-wide-receiver-rankings

I see the point you are attempting make. But this needs to be taken into account: DJ has played in arguably the worst QB situation of any of the receivers on the PFF list.

Cam didn't finish the 2018 or 2019 seasons as the starter due to injury, so a large portion of his rookie and sophomore campaigns were with back up QB's. The last two seasons (2020 and 2021) he's had to play with Teddy B and Sam Darnold. He's also had to play in offensive schemes overseen by Ron Rivera and Matt Rhule, neither of whom would be considered an offensive masterminds in today's NFL.

The fact that he's posted over 1,000 yards in 3 straight years with the guys we've had behind center IMHO is a testament of how good he is & can be. If he actually had a solid QB passing him the ball and a solid OC designing plays for him I think he could be one of the most productive receivers in the league. 

What type of stats do you think the guys rated ahead of him would have if they'd played in Carolina for the past four seasons?

[PootieNunu]

5 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I see the point you are attempting make. But this needs to be taken into account: DJ has played in arguably the worst QB situation of any of the receivers on the PFF list.

Cam didn't finish the 2018 or 2019 seasons as the starter due to injury, so a large portion of his rookie and sophomore campaigns were with back up QB's. The last two seasons (2020 and 2021) he's had to play with Teddy B and Sam Darnold. He's also had to play in offensive schemes overseen by Ron Rivera and Matt Rhule, neither of whom would be considered an offensive masterminds in today's NFL.

The fact that he's posted over 1,000 yards in 3 straight years with the guys we've had behind center IMHO is a testament of how good he is & can be. If he actually had a solid QB passing him the ball and a solid OC designing plays for him I think he could be one of the most productive receivers in the league. 

What type of stats do you think the guys rated ahead of him would have if they'd played in Carolina for the past four seasons?

And thats it, he is a yards WR, he is never going to be the guy to consistently post double digit touchdowns.

With a good QB I would expect him to have 1200ish yards with 5-7 TDs. Its just who he is. 

IF we can sign him to a decent contract I dont mind keeping him. If he is looking to break the bank see what other teams will offer. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by PootieNunu

[ECHornet]

2 hours ago, Mayor Qumiby said:

Definitely, and you're not paying it so why does it even matter?

Do you not think he is ?

And if not, what asset are we able to obtain that will put us in position to make a deep playoff push by not having to pay him 20 million?

I never understand when the “not your money” posts come on a message board centered around discussing a team and their transactions. Do you say, “why does it matter - you’re not the coach” when we lose a game?

 

No. I don’t think DJ is worth 20 mil per year. 
 

To your last question. 20mil could get us two quality starting guards which we don’t have. That would be a better use imo than paying WR1 money to a guy I’m not sure is a WR1. 

[SCO96]

38 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

And thats it, he is a yards WR, he is never going to be the guy to consistently post double digit touchdowns.

With a good QB I would expect him to have 1200ish yards with 5-7 TDs. Its just who he is. 

IF we can sign him to a decent contract I dont mind keeping him. If he is looking to break the bank see what other teams will offer. 

You can't make that assessment based on what you've seen from him in Carolina. Do you know how many passing touchdowns the Panthers had as a team in 2021? Fourteen (14)

Take a look at our passing TD's from 2018-2020

2018: 24 (Cam's last good year. DJ only started 10 games that season...and still finished 2nd on the team with 55 receptions)

2019: 17  

2020: 16

It's hard to fault DJ for not being a double digit TD guy when Panther QB's struggle to throw double digit touchdowns in a season 

Tom Brady (age 44) threw for 43 TDs in 2021. That's only 4 less than the Carolina Panthers have thrown as team (47) the past 3 seasons (2019-2021) 

DJ's 16 TD over that stretch is more 1/3 of our total passing touchdowns.

Edited February 17, 2022 by SCO96

[PootieNunu]

17 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

You can't make that assessment based on what you've seen from him in Carolina. Do you know how many passing touchdowns the Panthers had as a team in 2021? Fourteen (14)

Take a look at our passing TD's from 2018-2020

2018: 24 (Cam's last good year. DJ only started 10 games that season...and still finished 2nd on the team with 55 receptions)

2019: 17  

2020: 16

It's hard to fault DJ for not being a double digit TD guy when Panther QB's struggle to throw double digit touchdowns in a season 

Tom Brady (age 44) threw for 43 TDs in 2021. That's only 4 less than the Carolina Panthers have thrown as team (47) the past 3 seasons (2019-2021) 

DJ's 16 TD over that stretch is more 1/3 of our total passing touchdowns.

Thats all well and good but you made an arithmetic error, 16+17+24 = 57.

Dj has had 2, 4, 4, and 4 TDs each of his seasons. He is not a huge RZ threat. He is a good player but he is not an elite #1 WR. 

Also DJ has 14 TD catches in his career, not 16.

With the contract we gave Robby we will have to pay DJ 18m+ per season and I am not comfortable with that. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by PootieNunu