How far would the Stafford led Panthers have gone?

[4Corners]

39 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Stafford is better than average, but he's still a bum.

Hall of famer now. 

[X-Clown]

18 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Thats my point.  He is above average and was on a ridiculous team.  My idea of franchise QBs are guys that elevate everyone around them and make their team better and can carry them to victory if no one else can.  Stafford isn't that.  He needs the guys around him to do a lot of the carrying. 

He's better than average, but he isn't what people have tried to make him out to be.  He almost blew that game had the officials not stepped in late.

So is he above average or is he a bum? How is it possible to be both? Sam Darnold, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz are bums. 

I get you adopted the bengals and are emotional after they came up short, but stafford came up big after losing Beckham, having his running backs average less than 2 yards per carry, and having to throw prominently to *checks notes* Brycen Hopkins and Ben Skowronek when the bengals were triple covering kupp. He’s not on the level of mahomes, Allen, Herbert etc…as he’s a little older but he’s also not some guy that was just along for the ride either. 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by X-Clown

[frankw]

19 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Thats my point.  He is above average and was on a ridiculous team.  My idea of franchise QBs are guys that elevate everyone around them and make their team better and can carry them to victory if no one else can.  Stafford isn't that.  He needs the guys around him to do a lot of the carrying. 

He's better than average, but he isn't what people have tried to make him out to be.  He almost blew that game had the officials not stepped in late.

He's an above average QB with good arm talent. But the refs took that man by the hand and walked him to the goal line to take the lead in the Super Bowl with time expiring. No way in hell they give those kind of calls to just any quarterback in those circumstances.

[t96]

Easily make the playoffs as a wildcard with Stafford, then a quick out in the first round.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

Stafford is better than average, but he's still a bum.

Stafford proved he is among the elite QBs. Just buried on a disaster of a franchise.

4 playoff wins with 3 game winning drives in one season. That is Tom Brady level. Most good QBs are lucky to win a couple playoff games and have 1 game winning drive in the playoffs for their entire career.

He took a giant leap with his playoff performance. Very few QBs have 2 or more game winning drives in the playoffs over their career.

The most important measure of a QB is how well they can pull out victories in the playoffs.

OL gets you to the playoffs. A QB gets you through the playoffs. A defense wins you championships.

Edited February 14, 2022 by CPantherKing

[Khyber53]

Stafford would have been in the hospital by week six. 

[Proudiddy]

5 hours ago, X-Clown said:

So is he above average or is he a bum? How is it possible to be both? Sam Darnold, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz are bums. 

I get you adopted the bengals and are emotional after they came up short, but stafford came up big after losing Beckham, having his running backs average less than 2 yards per carry, and having to throw prominently to *checks notes* Brycen Hopkins and Ben Skowronek when the bengals were triple covering kupp. He’s not on the level of mahomes, Allen, Herbert etc…as he’s a little older but he’s also not some guy that was just along for the ride either. 

 

We can just agree to disagree.  It has nothing to do with the Bengals.  I was leaning towards them, but I didn't mind the Rams winning, as I like Donald and McVay among a few others.  I have been saying this about Stafford way before the SuperBowl.  The only game I felt he really proved a point was against the Bucs.  Last night, those refs were gonna keep calling penalties until they scored.  That's not a credit to Stafford.  The refs definitely took him along for the ride on that last scoring drive, because he almost blew it.  And yes, OBJ went down and the run game sucked, but he still threw 2 picks.  He's just one of those guys that are solid, but I don't feel the team wins because of HIM.  He just contributes to it.

All they needed was someone marginally better than Goff, and honestly, after the additions they made defensively and how that side of the ball ended up coming together, I'm not sure that Goff wouldn't have done the same thing Stafford just did.  I'm just not impressed.  Never have been.  He makes some big plays, but he also makes a lot of unnecessary boneheaded ones.

[X-Clown]

21 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

We can just agree to disagree.  It has nothing to do with the Bengals.  I was leaning towards them, but I didn't mind the Rams winning, as I like Donald and McVay among a few others.  I have been saying this about Stafford way before the SuperBowl.  The only game I felt he really proved a point was against the Bucs.  Last night, those refs were gonna keep calling penalties until they scored.  That's not a credit to Stafford.  The refs definitely took him along for the ride on that last scoring drive, because he almost blew it.  And yes, OBJ went down and the run game sucked, but he still threw 2 picks.  He's just one of those guys that are solid, but I don't feel the team wins because of HIM.  He just contributes to it.

All they needed was someone marginally better than Goff, and honestly, after the additions they made defensively and how that side of the ball ended up coming together, I'm not sure that Goff wouldn't have done the same thing Stafford just did.  I'm just not impressed.  Never have been.  He makes some big plays, but he also makes a lot of unnecessary boneheaded ones.

This sounds a lot like those people that never liked Cam Newton from the get go and were never going to have their opinion changed no matter what he did.

There is ZERO chance that Jared Goff could have made those two throws with all that was on the line to Kupp at the end against Tampa and a 10 point 4th quarter comeback against the Niners to even make it to this game. There’s a reason McVay and Snead were willing to give up two first rounders to dump Goffs contract, and bring in Stafford. I guarantee you there’s no point in the last 4 weeks they’ve regretted that call.

[TheProcess]

Smh....we really have people on here acting like the refs won that game for the Rams? Funny how end of the game situation makes people forget what happened earlier in the game.

[Mr. Scot]

7 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

My idea of franchise QBs are guys that elevate everyone around them and make their team better and can carry them to victory if no one else can.  

By that standard, Aaron Rodgers isn't a franchise quarterback.

I've never bought into the idea that a guy has to be able to "do it by himself" to be called a franchise quarterback because in fifty years of watching football, I've never seen a guy who can do it by himself.

It's always been a team sport (always will be) and having good players around them should never be used as an argument to diminish anyone's abilities.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[TheProcess]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

By that standard, Aaron Rodgers isn't a franchise quarterback.

I've never bought into the idea that a guy has to be able to "do it by himself" to be called a franchise quarterback because in fifty years of watching football, I've never seen a guy who can do it by himself.

It's always been a team sport, and having good players around them should never be used as an argument to diminish anyone's abilities.

This ^^^^ 

QB's can definitely elevate a team, but no QB in the history of the game has won a Super Bowl by himself

[ForJimmy]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

By that standard, Aaron Rodgers isn't a franchise quarterback.

I've never bought into the idea that a guy has to be able to "do it by himself" to be called a franchise quarterback because in fifty years of watching football, I've never seen a guy who can do it by himself.

It's always been a team sport (always will be) and having good players around them should never be used as an argument to diminish anyone's abilities.

Agreed. I would say the great leaders tend to get the most out of their teammates. Manning could make an decent WR play great and Brady won one with Caldwell as his best WR. You are right though, if no one is open and there is no time to through the ball, it doesn’t matter how good your QB is. This is a little bit of what I was saying with Willis and Howell. Howell has proven he can be great with weapons and when his OL gives him a little time (2020 season), and he didn’t play terrible when he had neither. 

[Mr. Scot]

Joe Burrow couldn't overcome his terrible offensive line.

Does that mean he's not a franchise QB?

[X-Clown]

40 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Agreed. I would say the great leaders tend to get the most out of their teammates. Manning could make an decent WR play great and Brady won one with Caldwell as his best WR. You are right though, if no one is open and there is no time to through the ball, it doesn’t matter how good your QB is. This is a little bit of what I was saying with Willis and Howell. Howell has proven he can be great with weapons and when his OL gives him a little time (2020 season), and he didn’t play terrible when he had neither. 

Agree with everything you said here except that Brady didn’t win a SB with Caldwell. Caldwell was his #1 WR for one season, in 2006 when Manning finally beat the Patriots and then won the SB. He dropped 2 passes in that game. If anything though it proves your point further.