About that #6 pick and QB..

[BlitzMonster]

Everybody agreed Horn was an elite talent before the draft.  And in the guy's short tenure with the Panthers before his injury, he did nothing to dispute that.  

A great CB takes away the opposing team's top receiver.  Or shuts down 1/2 of the passing area for the opposing QB.  You can build a defense around guys like that.  And CB play was a huge problem for the Panthers the previous season.  

My best guess to what happened at the draft was that when Penei Sewell got selected the pick before, the team was stuck.  It knew it needed OL but the guys left had some deficiencies (short armed Rashawn Slater) and was maybe a G in their eyes.  Misguided scouting but whatever.  So the team went with the best "sure thing" available at that pick in a shutdown CB.  The BPA at a position of team need.

I can't really scream at the club too much for this decision.  It is defensible in a lot of ways.  

[firefox1234]

15 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

Everybody agreed Horn was an elite talent before the draft.  And in the guy's short tenure with the Panthers before his injury, he did nothing to dispute that.  

A great CB takes away the opposing team's top receiver.  Or shuts down 1/2 of the passing area for the opposing QB.  You can build a defense around guys like that.  And CB play was a huge problem for the Panthers the previous season.  

My best guess to what happened at the draft was that when Penei Sewell got selected the pick before, the team was stuck.  It knew it needed OL but the guys left had some deficiencies (short armed Rashawn Slater) and was maybe a G in their eyes.  Misguided scouting but whatever.  So the team went with the best "sure thing" available at that pick in a shutdown CB.  The BPA at a position of team need.

I can't really scream at the club too much for this decision.  It is defensible in a lot of ways.  

But it still doesn’t change the fact that CB was a luxury for the place this team is at right now. The fact that we were able cover that position by later acquiring Gilmore shows that we did not get the best value for our #8 pick last year.

[trueblade]

I've mentioned this before, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

[firefox1234]

2 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I've mentioned this before, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

Na, thats a bad comparison. Darnold has four year body of work that shows he isn’t the guy you want. Even his first three games hardly moved the needle to say otherwise.

[trueblade]

1 minute ago, firefox1234 said:

Na, thats a bad comparison. Darnold has four year body of work that shows he isn’t the guy you want. Even his first three games hardly moved the needle to say otherwise.

Go back and look at some of the threads before the Cowboys game and I think you'll see the needle has indeed moved on Darnold.

[raleigh-panther]

Two most important positions  in the new era NFL.   LT and QB1

Rhule obviously didn’t get that memo in 2020 or 2021

His failure to adequately address both should have gotten his happy ass fired 

Edited February 10, 2022 by raleigh-panther

[SCO96]

1 hour ago, BlitzMonster said:

Everybody agreed Horn was an elite talent before the draft.  And in the guy's short tenure with the Panthers before his injury, he did nothing to dispute that.  

A great CB takes away the opposing team's top receiver.  Or shuts down 1/2 of the passing area for the opposing QB.  You can build a defense around guys like that.  And CB play was a huge problem for the Panthers the previous season.  

My best guess to what happened at the draft was that when Penei Sewell got selected the pick before, the team was stuck.  It knew it needed OL but the guys left had some deficiencies (short armed Rashawn Slater) and was maybe a G in their eyes.  Misguided scouting but whatever.  So the team went with the best "sure thing" available at that pick in a shutdown CB.  The BPA at a position of team need.

I can't really scream at the club too much for this decision.  It is defensible in a lot of ways.  

I highlighted the portion that resonated the most with me. My problem with the Rhule regime is how they evaluate talent.

I'd never pass on a player if his arm length is 1 inch shorter than ideal if I had a pressing need at LT. That one inch made them view Slater as a guard? Now Slater is a Pro Bowl LT after his first year in the league.

Same thing with BC.  Rhule made him the highest O-lineman we've drafted in the two years he's been here with expectation of turning him into a guard, a position he's never played and that doesn't play to his natural ability.

TMJ was picked in the 2nd round after Robbie received a contract extension; and despite the fact that the two best centers in the draft still being available at his draft slot. Before that we had already traded down twice and passed on several lineman that could've helped us this year.. Of course we saw how little he contributed this year.

I'm still pulling for D. Brown, but I don't know why he was our first pick in the 2020 draft. But, knowing what we know now, we should have picked someone else, or traded down to pick up extra choices.

Jeremy Chinn was almost defensive rookie of the year in 2020. He's still a great player, but by moving him farther from the line on scrimmage for most snaps he wasn't nearly as effective/impactful in 2021.

Somehow he was convinced that Bridgewater was a big money/potential franchise QB despite never throwing more than 15 TD's in a season prior to 2020.

I'm just hoping that the new and more seasoned coaching staff can get the best out of what we have on the roster. These moves were needed, but even these new hires are an indication of how unprepared Matt Rhule was for the NFL. These are the type of moves he should made as soon as he entered the league, not on in your third year after as a major regression in year two.

Edited February 10, 2022 by SCO96

[jfo89]

5 hours ago, therealmjl said:

Fit (Rhule’s yes man) hasn’t made many good decisions since he got here.

Fit has no power. His current role is essentially a scouting manager. He has relationships in the NFL that make trades possible, and Rhule decides how to use those relationships.

[grateflday]

5 hours ago, SCO96 said:

 

I still don't think we made a major mistake passing on Fields or Jones.….

Of course time will ultimately tell but Denver, who also needed a QB had the pick right after the Panthers and they passed on Fields and Jones also.  That put me more in the camp passing on them wasn’t a mistake.  

[Aussie Tank]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing can’t help injuries and we gambled on a QBs physical tools  

[panthers55]

Most of this conversation is in hind sight. Sure given Horn got injured and missed most of the season, and Darnold was worse than we expected and our line was worse than expected it may have been a wasted pick but at the time he was drafted our secondary was abysmal and we were looking at a bunch of good opposing wide receivers. I still think it will end up being a good move.

[raleigh-panther]

38 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

….and Darnold was worse than we expected and our line was worse than expected 

Ok

first, everybody knew what Sam Darnold was, is and will be as a NFL Qb

second, the injury history and performance of the two OL free agents was abysmal 

The failure of the offense should not be shocking to anyone, most of all, Matt Rhule 

I know of no other pro coach in the league who would make two simultaneously egregious evaluation errors like that 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by raleigh-panther

[frankw]

56 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Darnold was worse than we expected

He has finished with the worst QBR in the league the last two seasons. The only people that didn't expect him to continue turning the ball over at a high rate were Matt Rhule and Scott Fitterer and they didn't even bother to watch his game film

Edited February 10, 2022 by frankw

[jayboogieman]

9 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Even those who hated the pick will acknowledge that Jaycee is going to be a Pro-Bowl (may be even All-Pro) player if he stays healthy.

It's way too early to say that. Horn showed promise in the three games he played against two rookies making their first QB starts and a depleted Saints team. It's unknown if he'll be a pro bowler, a bust, or just some average guy.