Are people really STILL defending the decision to stick with Jake going into '09?

[Sandy Claws]

for every question you have about personnel decisions, your qoute of fox knows best can be thrown out. no one mentioned that he knows peppers best when we opted to slap the franchise tag on him.

PSSSST.

The coach doesn't make that call. He has input but the final say goes to the GM. I think you'll find that the owner was on board with this particular call as well.

[AceMan]

Martin is way better than Godfrey at FS at this point. There is no arguing that.

Like I said before, Fox is in a lose-lose situation. No matter what he does now, he will be gone after this season.

[carolinanimal]

More effective than Carr and Testaverde, yet, not as effective as when Jake was in at the beginning of the season?

The reason for ANY optimism for moore is that he was a UNDRAFTED ROOKIE IN THOSE GAMES. you guys kill me! you guys act like he should have been peyton manning to beat out delhomme. delhomme is nowhere near that good. for a ROOKIE he showed poise. Ron Jaworski raved over mechanics and his skillset. said he was a sleeper. but you know what he doesnt know anything!!,

Again this comes back to fox. Has he ever bought in any real competition for jake? top teams have done this ,they pay attention to the qb position. fox has ignored it . keeping the status qou is what is killing this team. that stems from fox. even keel. no adjustments. what works now will always work.

[carolinanimal]

PSSSST.

The coach doesn't make that call. He has input but the final say goes to the GM. I think you'll find that the owner was on board with this particular call as well.

so are you saying that fox was for this or agianst this?

[carolinanimal]

PSSSST.

The coach doesn't make that call. He has input but the final say goes to the GM. I think you'll find that the owner was on board with this particular call as well.

so the gm has final say on what FA's we keep?

[MaineManPanther]

you guys are making it seem as if just because fox doesnt start him its because he sucks and he sees him in practice everday and if any one disagrees you state we shouldnt because fox knows best.

I didnt say you shouldn't. Im not saying Fox doesnt make mistakes. But there is no disputing he knows way better then people here. And because of that, its not a unlikey assumption that he doesn't start him becuase he does beleive he wont do better.

With that being said, if your going to argue he's wrong about this specific situation then you need to use facts. But you don't, as savior nicley put it, you base it off the unkown, on the techianlity that there might be a chance that Moore is better.

[MaineManPanther]

The reason for ANY optimism for moore is that he was a UNDRAFTED ROOKIE IN THOSE GAMES. you guys kill me! you guys act like he should have been peyton manning to beat out delhomme. delhomme is nowhere near that good. for a ROOKIE he showed poise. Ron Jaworski raved over mechanics and his skillset. said he was a sleeper. but you know what he doesnt know anything!!,

Again this comes back to fox. Has he ever bought in any real competition for jake? top teams have done this ,they pay attention to the qb position. fox has ignored it . keeping the status qou is what is killing this team. that stems from fox. even keel. no adjustments. what works now will always work.

Jaws knows way less about Moore then Fox.

Moore doesnt have to be Manning to beat out Moore. He has to beat Delhomme, which he hasnt. And agian to say he was decnet two years ago for three games as a rookie really doent mean much.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Martin is way better than Godfrey at FS at this point. There is no arguing that.

Like I said before, Fox is in a lose-lose situation. No matter what he does now, he will be gone after this season.

I've been saying the same thing.

Nothing less than winning all six remaining games will allow John Fox to keep his job.

[Sandy Claws]

Martin is way better than Godfrey at FS at this point. There is no arguing that.

Like I said before, Fox is in a lose-lose situation. No matter what he does now, he will be gone after this season.

There is nothing that can't be argued.

Godfrey averaged 3.5 tackles per start

Martin averaged 3.25 tackles per start

Total D was 282 ypg with Godfrey

It's 365 ypg with Martin

Your turn

[CRA]

There is nothing that can't be argued.

Godfrey averaged 3.5 tackles per start

Martin averaged 3.25 tackles per start

Total D was 282 ypg with Godfrey

It's 365 ypg with Martin

Your turn

in 22 games Godfrey has 1 pick

in 4 games Martain has 3

in 22 games Godfrey showed he has no business playing the position nor does he have the skill set.

Martin showed from start #1 out of his 4 that he simply is a saftey.

as for you yards per game.....Godfrey was playing S against some of the worst offenses and Martin against some of the best ones in the league.

[AceMan]

I'll add this..

This season

Godfrey - 6 GS, 21 combined tackles, 1 PassDef, 1 FF, 0 Int

Martin - 4 GS, 17 combined tackles, 4 PassDef, 0 FF, 3 Int

Also, I'll throw in the fact that Godfrey has looked bad on National TV (Dallas game) while Martin has looked great in one of our biggest and important games (Arizona game).

Now tell me what you want most out of our FS? I know you're just arguing to argue

[carolinanimal]

everything falls back to peppers. even if they wanted another QB, we didnt have enough money to sign one. they decided to re-sign/restructure jake to make room for peppers cap hit.

very poor management

what happened the years before that?

[KillerKat]

"almost" won 3 games? LOL

Seahawks game was all defense and running game. We'd have won it with Vinnie still in there.

Dallas game wasn't as close as the score.

Tampa didn't even play most of their normal starters.

Moore wasn't the deciding factor in any of those.

Funny, Jake wasn't the deciding factor in our success last season. Right now he's only becoming a factor for the other team. Why stick with him?

[KillerKat]

Just to clarify, can you post the link that says that quote?

Colbert is a horrible example. He had a promsing season follwed it up with a bad one and Fox benched him. In fact you could argue that like Colbert, Moore had a promising season and, like colbert, showed nothing afterwards. So fox left him on the bench.

Bringing up practise is not bs, how else are you supposed to judge who should be the 2nd and who should be the thrid? How are you suppose to judge when two players are fighting out in training camp for the starting job?

And brining up Moore 2-1 record two years ago as an argument is as dumb a bringing Delhomme 12-4 of last year.

It was reported by Jay Glazor during the Fox pregame in Week 2.

Fox is NOT objective in practice when it comes to the QBs. Jake is his guy.