For all the Brady Christensen fans....

[Catsfan69]

14 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

 If every coach at every level could teach perfect fundamentals every player would have them. They don't. There's only a few elite level tackles every year because they don't all have these basic fundamentals. 

First step is different, but so is the second and the third. Tackles face more speed rushers where guards face more power rushers. Tackles slide laterally more often, guards get pushed backwards. Defenders use different hand movements. 

Again, we're talking 2 different positions. Guard is not his natural position. He probably has to think about it because it's not what he does on a regular basis. His blocking assignments are also different. Put him in 4 different positions and yeah, you can't expect him to look good because everything he is doing is constantly different. 

I'm not saying he's going to be great or even good. I'm just saying to expect a 1st round level performance from him with Rhay-Z as his HC is a little much. Fundamentals can be fixed. He can be taught. That's why we have offensive line coaches. Just try teaching him 1 spot first instead of 4. And by someone who actually knows that a tackle doesn't have to fit certain measurements to be all pro level. 

Have you ever played line?

You are talking about the last 5% of technique. He needs to fix the first 95%.

Have you ever done power cleans? He's not sinking his ass and hinging at the hips. It's the same as doing a power clean.

[SmokinwithWilly]

15 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Have you ever played line?

You are talking about the last 5% of technique. He needs to fix the first 95%.

Have you ever done power cleans? He's not sinking his ass and hinging at the hips. It's the same as doing a power clean.

Actually yes. I played both tackle and guard. 

[mc52beast]

11 hours ago, Mvp2014 said:

not all lineman are ready to start 17 games at 75 snaps a game.  Perhaps they want him to build phisique and confindence before they throw him to the wolves.  

 

The problem is Rhule and others didn’t think he had long enough arms. 

[Catsfan69]

37 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Actually yes. I played both tackle and guard. 

Then you should know pad level is the same for both. 

Hip loading is the same for both.

Look at the tape he's either standing straight up or extended out past his feet and bending at the waist.

 

Neither of those two issues have anything with him playing guard, tackle or center.

Until those are fixed he can only be so successful. 

[Catsfan69]

7 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

The problem is Rhule and others didn’t think he had long enough arms. 

Rhule is too stupid to breathe 

[SmokinwithWilly]

36 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Then you should know pad level is the same for both. 

Hip loading is the same for both.

Look at the tape he's either standing straight up or extended out past his feet and bending at the waist.

 

Neither of those two issues have anything with him playing guard, tackle or center.

Until those are fixed he can only be so successful. 

I agree to an extent. 

It's all about how the player engages. At guard, it's a much more physical engagement against an often larger player. You have to bend forward so that at impact your body straightens and you can take that impact without losing your balance or your leverage. At tackle, while you engage, it's against lighter faster players that are often trying to get outside your shoulders and past you. You don't engage as heavily and stand up a little straighter so you can move laterally better. Defenders can and will use your momentum against you as well. At guard I expected to cover about 60 degrees of the the field in front of me, tackle was about 90 degrees. That extra space meant I had to be more agile and couldn't explode out of my stance the same for each position. 

Can BC improve? Absolutely. But I think it's also unfair to say he should be able to move all over the line without issue. Very few linemen can move across all positions on the line seamlessly because it isn't easy to do, much less for a rookie. But we're talking about things happening in tenths of a second and this is where coaching comes into play. Coaches should be able to close these gaps from college to the pros. Fix these problems and help them adjust to the speed and size difference. But looking at Matt Rhule and having to say that's the guy to help BC make that adjustment, all I can say to myself is he's fugged. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

13 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I think if you tell him that he will be a LT (I do not see him as a guard, frankly, because he is more of a finesse player) during the offseason and you work with him starting now---he will improve.

Brady is borderline starting LT now--with some work, he can be an average LT in 2022.  How the new OL coach and OC see this might determine who we draft.

We've fussed and moaned about how atrocious our line is. How we need to address the line this off-season. 

We need a great O-line coach. If they can get Brown and Christensen up to speed then we have 3/5th of the line addressed. Find another guard and center we only need to develop depth. 

I think our biggest acquisition this off-season will be who we hire as our o-line coach.

[Jackie Lee]

5 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

 If every coach at every level could teach perfect fundamentals every player would have them. They don't. There's only a few elite level tackles every year because they don't all have these basic fundamentals. 

First step is different, but so is the second and the third. Tackles face more speed rushers where guards face more power rushers. Tackles slide laterally more often, guards get pushed backwards. Defenders use different hand movements. 

Again, we're talking 2 different positions. Guard is not his natural position. He probably has to think about it because it's not what he does on a regular basis. His blocking assignments are also different. Put him in 4 different positions and yeah, you can't expect him to look good because everything he is doing is constantly different. 

I'm not saying he's going to be great or even good. I'm just saying to expect a 1st round level performance from him with Rhay-Z as his HC is a little much. Fundamentals can be fixed. He can be taught. That's why we have offensive line coaches. Just try teaching him 1 spot first instead of 4. And by someone who actually knows that a tackle doesn't have to fit certain measurements to be all pro level. 

So since you played, my question is since he already wasn't great against the bull rush in college even against guys 50 pounds lighter than him and with the ability to widen his stance to absorb the impact or whatever, why would Rhule think he would have a better chance inside at guard taking on DT's? I'm assuming DT's or bigger DE's playing inside generally bull rush/Slash/Swim. I think his best quality on tape to me has been finesse tackle/working speed guys out to the edge/a couple yards behind the play and buying time for the QB. He'll never be a legit road grader obviously so I just don't get Rhules 2nd round guard/3rd round tackle grade

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

So since you played, my question is since he already wasn't great against the bull rush in college even against guys 50 pounds lighter than him and with the ability to widen his stance to absorb the impact or whatever, why would Rhule think he would have a better chance inside at guard taking on DT's? I'm assuming DT's or bigger DE's playing inside generally bull rush/Slash/Swim. I think his best quality on tape to me has been finesse tackle/working speed guys out to the edge/a couple yards behind the play and buying time for the QB. He'll never be a legit road grader obviously so I just don't get Rhules 2nd round guard/3rd round tackle grade

It just further shows how poor Rhule is at talent evaluation, in addition to coaching.

[kungfoodude]

12 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Then you should know pad level is the same for both. 

Hip loading is the same for both.

Look at the tape he's either standing straight up or extended out past his feet and bending at the waist.

 

Neither of those two issues have anything with him playing guard, tackle or center.

Until those are fixed he can only be so successful. 

Yeah and that is what Wahle(and the rest of the 4 Man Rush crew)is saying. It is also why I say he is really a backup OL and not a starter. 

Could he fix some of his technique issues? Yes. Is it likely he will? Probably not. 

If you look at the previous weeks 4 Man Rush episode with Wahle, he tells a story of his time in Miami and a young guy that was a very good athlete(which Christensen is) that they tasked him with trying to improve his footwork. He basically said if you work on this every day, you might be able to accomplish this in a few years.

So, when he talks about guys that are comfortable in these positions and have excellent technique already, those are the type of players we should have been drafting. He also referenced Slater and how stellar of an OT prospect he was.

So this is just more ammo into how bad our OL evaluation is. It is why I think we just aren't going to be able to recover on that unit. We need people in the building that understand how to evaluate offensive linemen and it's obvious that Rhule isn't that guy, nor listens to those guys if they are there.

[bythenbrs]

13 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Have you ever done power cleans? 

Mrs. Nbrs power cleans the house every Saturday morning.  You could eat off the floors, really!

[Catsfan69]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah and that is what Wahle(and the rest of the 4 Man Rush crew)is saying. It is also why I say he is really a backup OL and not a starter. 

Could he fix some of his technique issues? Yes. Is it likely he will? Probably not. 

If you look at the previous weeks 4 Man Rush episode with Wahle, he tells a story of his time in Miami and a young guy that was a very good athlete(which Christensen is) that they tasked him with trying to improve his footwork. He basically said if you work on this every day, you might be able to accomplish this in a few years.

So, when he talks about guys that are comfortable in these positions and have excellent technique already, those are the type of players we should have been drafting. He also referenced Slater and how stellar of an OT prospect he was.

So this is just more ammo into how bad our OL evaluation is. It is why I think we just aren't going to be able to recover on that unit. We need people in the building that understand how to evaluate offensive linemen and it's obvious that Rhule isn't that guy, nor listens to those guys if they are there.

Which is exactly what I've been saying and why just screaming we need a new OL coach isn't fixing BC.

You can't fix this level of deficiency in the 10 minutes a practice that Rhule gives the OL coach to do it.

BC should have been honing his craft every offseason from the get go instead of just relying on physical gifts.

We'll see how hard he works in the offseason but he needs to spend probably 2 hrs on this in morning. 

Lift.

2 hrs in afternoon.

At a minimum 

[SmokinwithWilly]

40 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Which is exactly what I've been saying and why just screaming we need a new OL coach isn't fixing BC.

You can't fix this level of deficiency in the 10 minutes a practice that Rhule gives the OL coach to do it.

BC should have been honing his craft every offseason from the get go instead of just relying on physical gifts.

We'll see how hard he works in the offseason but he needs to spend probably 2 hrs on this in morning. 

Lift.

2 hrs in afternoon.

At a minimum 

I'm not in disagreement with you at all and he does need to work on his craft and not rely on physical gifts. And he could have very well been honing his craft, with poor or inadequate coaching. We don't really know. Which is why I'm not ready to write him off. Linemen can play into their mid 30s so if it takes him a couple years to fix this, so be it. If he doesn't, we move on. Whether it's working with the Panthers new OL coach or a private coach, it's definitely going to take more than 10 minutes and lots of repetition to correct his form. 

My point really was you don't draft 3rd round tackles to make them plug and play all over the line as a rookie. There's too much too learn and it's really setting them and the team up for failure. I just think Rhule really is the wrong guy for skill set evaluation and placement. 

[Sgt Schultz]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

He also referenced Slater and how stellar of an OT prospect he was.

 

You had to mention Slater.  It is 11:15am here, and thanks to you I need a drink.

If I remember, some of the pre-draft analysis even said he was versatile.