Our Roster -- Players We Feel Good About (Part 2 - Defense)**

[SetfreexX]

Last week I wrote a bout the offense, this week it only seems fair to take a look at the roster and players under contract as of ''today''; to determine how I / you feel about that side of the ball and where things stand. 

I'd like to start out by saying overall the defense IMO held us down in a lot of games, and ANY level of competence from the offense primarily while Sam was QB (I can't blame Cam coming in mid-season, and not knowing the PB, no off-season, etc.) could have seen us look less like a complete disaster. 

DL - Derrick Brown, Morgan Fox, Gross-Matos -- I think the 3 DL fronts exposed our lack of size in base personnel at times versus the more power run centric teams. However each of these three, two of which being 2nd year guys (Brown / Matos) showed some growth even if there were some growing pains at times. Fox I think is worth keeping around for the rotation, but he seemed to taper off after a hot start. However that was an affect on the defense as a whole as I think the guys up front were morn out as we approached the end of games. 

EDGE - Burns, that's it, Reddick is the only other person that would make this list but he's an UFA. We HAVE no perimeter depth at the OLB spot as far as pass rushers go. I am fairly concerned about this unit as we move forward if we are not able to retain Reddick's services. Since we adopted more 3 man fronts, I do not include Gross-Matos in this category as he is more of a traditional 4-3 DE vs a stand up guy. 

Off Ball LB - Shaq, once again that's it, Carter Jr. is serviceable at best, and doesn't seem to have star upside. Shaq is about to count as a $18.2M cap hit this coming season (rounded up - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/). While Shaq had a hell of a season and finally lived up to his selection status, that is an absurd number for that position. I fully expect to see a restructure of some sort as cutting him would still be 12M in dead cap which would free up 6M in space, so with not depth, and no ''significant'' savings we need to add to this position as well. 

Cornerback - Horn, Abouye, & Henderson; quite honestly this would still be one of the better secondary's we have had overall in the past several years. Horn looked the part of a true #1, allowing a guy like Henderson to match the 2nd or 3rd WR in a rotation with Abouye. STO III, and Pride off IR have potential, but not enough to say I'm okay not retaining Jackson, or Gilmore. 

Safety - Chinn, and I say that with a bit of an asterisk, of any player added I think he's had the most on his plate. Played out of position as a rookie due to ''necessity'' and again to a bit of a lesser degree did so again as the ''free'' safety. IMO he's a better fit as a flex piece, and shouldn't be tied to any particular spot, however in order to maximize his potential we have got to get some legit talent to man the single high position so that he is free to play man on TE's, or offer additional run support in the box. Temple guys like Franklin, and Chandler are PS guys, and Robinson has been limited to flashes in spot duty.

________________________________________________________________

All things considered, I think we have our hands full heading into this off-season, as things stand I think we have a ''C'' level defense, and it could be as high as a B, or B+ depending on what we are able to do in regard to our own re-signings, free agency, and the draft. 

I think there are way more holes on the defense than people realize, and finding enough allocation to improve both sides will be a challenge. This is why personally I think the part of the solution is to trade back 1-2 times in the 1st round as we would do ourselves a service to accumulate a future 1st, and day 2 picks (trading down from 6), and secondly additional day 2 picks via a potential second trade down in the first. 

If we had at least a 2nd, I'd be all over BPA at #6, I just don't think we have that luxury, and with a non-starter quality QB on the roster, and the 18.8M we owe him taking BPA there at any position doesn't matter because we have IMO a lame duck coach in Rhule barring a miracle, and we need to start prepping this roster for 2023. To me that's the reality of it all. 

It has been gross mismanagement of assets, and a lack of common sense at the top (Tepper and Rhule).

[Michael G]

The front seven will be very interesting this offseason.

We need a true Mike to pair with Shaq (Carter isn't it). I think we will continue to play more of a nickel than a base defense. Hartsfield or Bouye will most likely be that Nickel. Chinn may also get some looks there as the Big Nickel if we get some help at Safety (which we need at least one more piece even if Robinson can contribute more regularly)

I think our use of odd and even fronts will largely be determined by whether or not Reddick can be brought back. I hope so. We should continue to see Gross-Matos play the end in most even fronts and kick inside on 3rd down or odd fronts. I think Daquan Jones will be let go. Nixon, Roy, or Hoskins will probably compete to start as the 2nd DT in even fronts. I can see Nixon, Brown, and Gross-Matos being the lineup when in odd fronts.

Burns (if he isn't traded away) will continue to play end or stand up edge(olb) depending on the front.

Our corners are definitely a strength but I worry they are not as strong as some suggest. I like Horn to start but I'm not sure Henderson, Taylor, or Pride are good enough to be the #2. Hopefully one of those guys continue to improve in the offseason (Henderson hasn't had one with Snow and this scheme). I doubt Gilmore will take a hometown discount and would not want to pay DJ to come back.

To Summarize we have a lot of good pieces, but can we add to them and use them in a way that promotes success. We have to figure out how to set edges better and how to apply pressure against good OL's. The Reddick-Burns combo needs more push from the inside.

 

[davos]

YGM developing into a 3-down DE is critical to bolstering the run defense and letting Reddick walk.  When he and/or Fox were on the field, the run defense seemed to be much more effective.  

YGM, Brown, Burns & Chinn are the 4 that need to take the next step and become guys that can overcome sh*t coaching and lead this defense.  

[Michael G]

5 minutes ago, davos said:

YGM developing into a 3-down DE is critical to bolstering the run defense and letting Reddick walk.  When he and/or Fox were on the field, the run defense seemed to be much more effective. 

Fox and YGM as your standard DE's in even front's is also a possibility that would bolster run defense. That might cut Burns out of the equation if Reddick stays. A lot of the runs were to Burns' side and some successful screens. They have options. I just hope they are able to use the ones they are able to hold onto and acquire.

[davos]

2 minutes ago, Michael G said:

Fox and YGM as your standard DE's in even front's is also a possibility that would bolster run defense. That might cut Burns out of the equation if Reddick stays. A lot of the runs were to Burns' side and some successful screens. They have options. I just hope they are able to use the ones they are able to hold onto and acquire.

Yep.  I like Fox here and YGM can develop into a really solid core piece.  On passing downs, his pressure numbers when in were great.  If he develops, it just really helps things out in the trenches.

I'm confident D. Brown can still be a great player for us as well.  He just goes through stretches where he looks pedestrian when I think a lot of us were expecting this guy that warranted double teams and clog the middle.  

Really thought the run defense would be better with Jones & Brown.  Jones is a guy who really underwhelmed.  

 

[Michael G]

28 minutes ago, davos said:

I'm confident D. Brown can still be a great player for us as well.  He just goes through stretches where he looks pedestrian when I think a lot of us were expecting this guy that warranted double teams and clog the middle.  

I agree completely. They do not have the piece right not that will consistently eat up double teams in the mIddle (unless Brown can become that guy). Nixon is doubtful to be that guy either. When any of our tackles are double teamed on running downs they can be moved out of the way too easily. This can be nulified somewhat if the other guy (not being doubled) is winning his reps consistently (we need more of that too).

[panthrpants]

2 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Last week I wrote a bout the offense, this week it only seems fair to take a look at the roster and players under contract as of ''today''; to determine how I / you feel about that side of the ball and where things stand. 

I'd like to start out by saying overall the defense IMO held us down in a lot of games, and ANY level of competence from the offense primarily while Sam was QB (I can't blame Cam coming in mid-season, and not knowing the PB, no off-season, etc.) could have seen us look less like a complete disaster. 

DL - Derrick Brown, Morgan Fox, Gross-Matos -- I think the 3 DL fronts exposed our lack of size in base personnel at times versus the more power run centric teams. However each of these three, two of which being 2nd year guys (Brown / Matos) showed some growth even if there were some growing pains at times. Fox I think is worth keeping around for the rotation, but he seemed to taper off after a hot start. However that was an affect on the defense as a whole as I think the guys up front were morn out as we approached the end of games. 

EDGE - Burns, that's it, Reddick is the only other person that would make this list but he's an UFA. We HAVE no perimeter depth at the OLB spot as far as pass rushers go. I am fairly concerned about this unit as we move forward if we are not able to retain Reddick's services. Since we adopted more 3 man fronts, I do not include Gross-Matos in this category as he is more of a traditional 4-3 DE vs a stand up guy. 

Off Ball LB - Shaq, once again that's it, Carter Jr. is serviceable at best, and doesn't seem to have star upside. Shaq is about to count as a $18.2M cap hit this coming season (rounded up - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/). While Shaq had a hell of a season and finally lived up to his selection status, that is an absurd number for that position. I fully expect to see a restructure of some sort as cutting him would still be 12M in dead cap which would free up 6M in space, so with not depth, and no ''significant'' savings we need to add to this position as well. 

Cornerback - Horn, Abouye, & Henderson; quite honestly this would still be one of the better secondary's we have had overall in the past several years. Horn looked the part of a true #1, allowing a guy like Henderson to match the 2nd or 3rd WR in a rotation with Abouye. STO III, and Pride off IR have potential, but not enough to say I'm okay not retaining Jackson, or Gilmore. 

Safety - Chinn, and I say that with a bit of an asterisk, of any player added I think he's had the most on his plate. Played out of position as a rookie due to ''necessity'' and again to a bit of a lesser degree did so again as the ''free'' safety. IMO he's a better fit as a flex piece, and shouldn't be tied to any particular spot, however in order to maximize his potential we have got to get some legit talent to man the single high position so that he is free to play man on TE's, or offer additional run support in the box. Temple guys like Franklin, and Chandler are PS guys, and Robinson has been limited to flashes in spot duty.

________________________________________________________________

All things considered, I think we have our hands full heading into this off-season, as things stand I think we have a ''C'' level defense, and it could be as high as a B, or B+ depending on what we are able to do in regard to our own re-signings, free agency, and the draft. 

I think there are way more holes on the defense than people realize, and finding enough allocation to improve both sides will be a challenge. This is why personally I think the part of the solution is to trade back 1-2 times in the 1st round as we would do ourselves a service to accumulate a future 1st, and day 2 picks (trading down from 6), and secondly additional day 2 picks via a potential second trade down in the first. 

If we had at least a 2nd, I'd be all over BPA at #6, I just don't think we have that luxury, and with a non-starter quality QB on the roster, and the 18.8M we owe him taking BPA there at any position doesn't matter because we have IMO a lame duck coach in Rhule barring a miracle, and we need to start prepping this roster for 2023. To me that's the reality of it all. 

It has been gross mismanagement of assets, and a lack of common sense at the top (Tepper and Rhule).

Very much agreed, with the exception of Henderson.  I think he's still a question mark, and the trade was a mistake in hindsight.  Dan Arnold had a career year in 2020 with the Cardinals, and was on pace for 600+ yards (playing on decidedly worse teams) until going on IR.  TE is a big hole right now.

[SCO96]

33 minutes ago, panthrpants said:

Very much agreed, with the exception of Henderson.  I think he's still a question mark, and the trade was a mistake in hindsight.  Dan Arnold had a career year in 2020 with the Cardinals, and was on pace for 600+ yards (playing on decidedly worse teams) until going on IR.  TE is a big hole right now.

From what I saw Keith Taylor Jr. held up pretty well when he was on the field this season. He was a great value pick in the 5th round. Rhule should have played him more this season instead of trading for CJ Henderson. As you pointed out, not only did we lose a valuable 3rd round pick, but we also lost our best passing catching TE. Arnold would have been a huge benefit to our offense this past season. I didn't see CJ do anything significantly better than Keith in pass coverage.

That's my biggest gripe with Rhule. He did a poor job developing the rookies on both sides of the ball in 2021.

Edited January 25, 2022 by SCO96

[Icege]

I'm very interested in how the front 7 is addressed. The team is set at DB imo with the exception of finding a 3rd safety, so figuring out how we're going to shore up the run defense is a priority.

Brown, Nixon, Hoskins, and Roy all seem capable, though I wouldn't mind a veteran run stuffer being added to the group to push one of them for a spot. The DEs are my primary concern here has we're losing depth and the guys that Rhule brought in seem about as effective as his QBs have been. Burns is a starter and YGM is developing nicely as somebody that can line up as an end on run downs and kick inside to the 3-tech on passing downs. Fox was a disappointment, Haynes is set for FA, and I've already mentioned how I view Johnson.

Reddick won't be retainable, but Frankie Luvu will. We can have him start as the Sam, find a Mike, and we'll finally have a competent starting LB group again. 

[SetfreexX]

37 minutes ago, panthrpants said:

Very much agreed, with the exception of Henderson.  I think he's still a question mark, and the trade was a mistake in hindsight.  Dan Arnold had a career year in 2020 with the Cardinals, and was on pace for 600+ yards (playing on decidedly worse teams) until going on IR.  TE is a big hole right now.

TE is a while because that position was not emphasized under Brady imo.

Hopefully that changes. 

[MHS831]

I think Taylor belongs in the CB conversation.

I was also pleasantly surprised to see Mayfield at nickel

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Reddick won't be retainable, but Frankie Luvu will. We can have him start as the Sam, find a Mike, and we'll finally have a competent starting LB group again. 

Using Luvu correctly is key