Small-handed QB argument sounds foolish on its face

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, unicar15 said:

Picketts hands are almost a full inch smaller than Burrow… 

Pickett's hands could be unusually small, I don't know. But show me where Pickett had substantially more fumbles than Burrow and it might actually mean something. 

 

[Mage]

22 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Pickett's hands could be unusually small, I don't know. But show me where Pickett had substantially more fumbles than Burrow and it might actually mean something. 

 

I have no dog in this fight

However, an NFL ball is bigger than a college ball.  So how Pickett managed to protect the ball in college isn't what concerns scouts (not to mention he wore gloves).  It is if he can consistently and effectively grip the larger NFL ball.  Which is why his combine and/or Pro Day will be important.

Again, no dog in the fight.  I really have no idea how he'll look throwing.  I think it is a wait-and-see kind of thing.  

Edited January 25, 2022 by Mage

[mav1234]

13 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Pickett's hands could be unusually small, I don't know. But show me where Pickett had substantially more fumbles than Burrow and it might actually mean something. 

 

They may be unusually small. Not sure it matters for fumbles.  Hard to say.  I thought NFL balls were slightly larger but that may be old info.

Pickett had 7 fumbles and 1 fumble lost in 2020. 3 with 2 lost in 2021

Lawrence had 5 with 3 lost in 2020.

Burrows had 4 with 1 lost in 2019. 

Herbert had 4 with 1 lost in 2019. 

Sam Howell had 4 with 1 lost in 2020 and 8 with 4 lost in 2021.

[Wes21]

I'm going to say that the NFL ball is still bigger than the college ball, because that is one of the adjustments Ja'Marr Chase said he had to make to an NFL ball.  And that obviously just happened this season.  Also, in college teams have the ability to "personalize" the balls they use on gameday, as long as some basic criteria are met.  They can even play with the material of the laces to give the QB more grip.  In the NFL there is only one football and you don't get to custom order a ball for your tiny hands QB. LOL

To me handsize matters but its another thing that gets overblown during underwear olympics time.  I hear old time coaches and scouts say that want guys with 9.5 to 10 inch hands.  I think time has proven that you can move the marker down to 9 inches safely as long as the game film checks out and you don't see any perceived issues handling the football.  Not many guys who are tall enough to play QB have hands smaller than that, so there is a limited data set.  The shorter guys seem to have larger than normal hands for their height.  I'm not sure if that's coincidence or if its one of the things that allowed them to keep playing QB while other "shorter" guys didn't make it.

[unicar15]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2020-nfl-combine-joe-burrow-makes-fun-of-his-tiny-hands-in-hilarious-tweet-patrick-mahomes-also-weighs-in/
 

This article says Burrows hands are the smallest for anyone considered a #1 overall pick and historically QBs with hands less than 9in don’t fare well in the league. 
 
Picketts hands are almost a full inch smaller than the accepted smallest hand size. 
 

Willis is QB1a 

Corral will be QB1b

Pickett will fall out of the first round…that’s my hunch. 
 

[TheRumGone]

Yeah this isn’t the same as LTs with short arms who can make it up with technique. There’s no technique to make up for small hands throwing the football. I was corrected the size of the nfl ball is bigger than college and he wears a glove because of this makes it that much worse. 
 

I didn’t want this guy out of the rest of the qbs to begin with and now I really don’t. Willis and Corral should be the only ones worth discussing with a first round pick regardless of a trade down.

[Waldo]

Ball size rundown 

The balls weigh the same but different sizes, shapes and materials. It still depends on the QB.

I'm sure their is a lot more complex answer for this but all we have right now is hand size. I do wonder if it is finger length, hand strength or somethibg like that to be lot more accurate. 

Is there a gloved QB that has done really well? I'm drawing a blank.     

Edited January 25, 2022 by Waldo

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, TheRumGone said:

Yeah this isn’t the same as LTs with short arms who can make it up with technique. There’s no technique to make up for small hands throwing the football. I was corrected the size of the nfl ball is bigger than college and he wears a glove because of this makes it that much worse. 
 

I didn’t want this guy out of the rest of the qbs to begin with and now I really don’t. Willis and Corral should be the only ones worth discussing with a first round pick regardless of a trade down.

Ridder might end up better than either one of them, and is certainly in discussion of a first round pick. Ridder could stand to bulk up and Corral is smaller than him (and injury prone). Willis is as raw as steak tartare. Just saying. 

[PantherFanInPhilly]

Pass on Pickett, pretty please. 

[TheRumGone]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Ridder might end up better than either one of them, and is certainly in discussion of a first round pick. Ridder could stand to bulk up and Corral is smaller than him (and injury prone). Willis is as raw as steak tartare. Just saying. 

Agreed but so was Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes. Patrick was so raw. Same type of draft questions and people thought he could drop to the second round. Mechanics were wacky. The arm talent just splashed every game. He went to literally the perfect situation.  Allen similar things. Very inaccurate.  I said before if we knew for a fact rhule was gonna be here for the next two years that might change my personal decision. He’s just not gonna get proper coaching and development it seems like.
 

willis runs a sub 4.4 40 and is incredibly shifty in and out of the pocket with an absolute cannon. He’s had to work with a shitty line and make things happen off script. And can drop huge passes on a dime. I was just watching some of his games and he flicked a 60 yard td in stride to the receiver off his back foot. He’s the most talented qb in this draft imo but also the biggest bust potential.  Plays with a chip on his shoulder. If I had to pick one qb it would be him just to swing for the fences type of deal. I’m using Allen and Mahomes as a litmus test with the way the nfl has changed into a qb driven league. We need someone crazy talented that can be molded. But of course I’m not sure if we have the staff capable of that. 

[davos]

28 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Ridder might end up better than either one of them, and is certainly in discussion of a first round pick. Ridder could stand to bulk up and Corral is smaller than him (and injury prone). Willis is as raw as steak tartare. Just saying. 

I swear, taking a step back and just looking at everything, Ridder is really appealing.  Not at 6, I personally am leaning towards Charles Cross, but if there's a scenario where we can land him without mortgaging the future, I'd be fully game for it.

He was my fave before I started diving into things and I've kind of come back around to him over the rest.

[Basbear]

19 hours ago, top dawg said:

 

There it is, o and if you want to show the 1 out of 582,049 case..... dont use Bob "I take drives for the mafia" Sapp. 

[Icege]

Remember the last QB prospect that we had the tiny hands discussion about?

Jimmy Clausen

fwiw, Pickett looks much better than Clausen but unfortunately with the same amount of arm strength. His aggressive tendencies are going to get him into trouble in the pros as those windows are much, much tighter to fit into.

Also, the concerns with hand size for a QB are the aforementioned ability to throw a tighter (and therefore farther) spiral as well as concerns with ball security. The thought is that of all players, the QB is the one most likely to be running with the ball hanging from one hand while he's still looking to throw it. You don't want the slightest impact to jar that ball loose.

With that said, Kenny Pickett averaged a fumble every other game in college with 8.25" hands. Russell Wilson has 10.25" hands and averages a fumble every 4 games in the pros.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Icege

[parker]

So, lets say he had kid size hands.  Could he hold a football?  Absolutely not.  So there is a point where the size of the hands are going to become a problem.  The argument is going to be where that lies, but there is no doubt that hand size can be a factor.  

FWIW, I always had to grip a football closer to the end.  I noticed most NFL QBs grip it closer to the center.  My grip would have been hard to keep from getting it knocked out or pulling it back down from a passing motion.