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2002 John Fox article from Gameday mag...

KillerKat

By KillerKat,
in Carolina Panthers

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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This article came from a Gameday mag I still have from 2002. Doesn't the highlighted text make you depressed to see where he was when he first became a head coach to where he is right now? It's like he did a complete 180. He's the total opposite of everything mentioned in this article.

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15geiw.jpg

Just look at the team where we are right now. They aren't enthusiastic every game. During the Dolphins game when they showed the team on the sidelines, they didn't look pumped at all. There was no energy. There was no enthusiasm that was here before in Fox's early years. And instead of being competitive, he's conservative and only has our team at winning records with weak schedules until the next season when it's a little tougher.

The line "they found a man whose passion for the game is matched by the zeal of his players on the field" caught my eye. Could the lack of energy within the team be a reflection of the coach now? I believe so. I believe Fox's time here has run its course. There's nothing else he can do to motivate his team. Instead they have to motivate each other (see Beason and Peppers).

How about the line from Hamilton. "He gets the most out of his players". More like, the talent of this team has been carrying Fox. Not the other way around like it was way back when.

Then the line "If John coaches like he has a vendetta, it could be that he has something to prove after so many professional stops". Could it be that Fox got satisfied after the Super Bowl run and the NFC Championship game in 2005? Cause when the 2006 season came, that's when it went all down hill. In his own mind I believe he feels he has nothing else to prove which then translates into a lack of fire which then trickles down on to the team.

Then this line is hilarious. "Pass pressure was another trademark of John's units". When was the last time we had a good pass rush...against good teams?

Michael Strahan even talks about how Fox taught him and the other guys on the d-line for the Giants how to perform better. He made them understand the game better. Where has that been lately?

When you look at the coach Fox was before back in 2002 and look where he is right now, it's obvious that he has just run his course here. He is no longer the coach he was, he brings no enthusiasm, no fire, no passion. It's time for mediocrity to be done with and get rid of him.

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Raleighcat83 Newbie

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Look, it's great that everybody has opinions on Fox they want to discuss but this thread is based on two very shaky assumptions. The first is that an article in a Gameday magazine published by the team can be taken at face value. What, exactly, do you expect the Gameday magazine to say? Secondly, it's just not possible for any fan to judge a coach's enthusiasm without being in the locker room, meeting room, or practice field. I'm not saying Fox is a great motivator or leader, I can't know that, and neither can you. As far as the talent carrying him, that might be right, although we've never seen most of these players play for any other coach, so how do we know it's not the other way around? Tyler Brayton and Damione Lewis have improved since they came here. Mushin Muhammad was good here, slid into obscurity in Chicago, then had a minor resurgance since returning, despite advancing age. Chris Harris became a better player in Carolina than he ever was in Chicago. Meanwhile, Ricky Manning, DeSean Foster, Keary Colbert and others have left here as starters(albeit substandard ones) and subsequently washed out of the league. So how do you figure the talent is carrying him?

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dksmith17 Newbie

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I am also tired of the widespread belief that Carolina is unmotivated and doesn't play with passion.

Who exactly is unmotivated? No one but one person, Julius Peppers. And Pep just has always been in his own little world from the get go.

In fact, I would argue that we have some of the most passionate/motivated guys in the league. Smitty, Beason, Jake, are all known for their fire. Williams and Stewart have shown nothing but maturity and a passion for winning. Chris Harris, Moose and others are nothing to laugh at either.

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KillerKat Grand Master

KillerKat

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Look, it's great that everybody has opinions on Fox they want to discuss but this thread is based on two very shaky assumptions. The first is that an article in a Gameday magazine published by the team can be taken at face value. What, exactly, do you expect the Gameday magazine to say? Secondly, it's just not possible for any fan to judge a coach's enthusiasm without being in the locker room, meeting room, or practice field. I'm not saying Fox is a great motivator or leader, I can't know that, and neither can you. As far as the talent carrying him, that might be right, although we've never seen most of these players play for any other coach, so how do we know it's not the other way around? Tyler Brayton and Damione Lewis have improved since they came here. Mushin Muhammad was good here, slid into obscurity in Chicago, then had a minor resurgance since returning, despite advancing age. Chris Harris became a better player in Carolina than he ever was in Chicago. Meanwhile, Ricky Manning, DeSean Foster, Keary Colbert and others have left here as starters(albeit substandard ones) and subsequently washed out of the league. So how do you figure the talent is carrying him?

That was Fox's first year, the Gameday mag just says what his strengths are and what he is bringing to the team. Comparing 2002 to right now is like comparing night and day. Total opposites.

If you look at the sidelines, you'll see the lack of passion from time to time. The team just sitting on the bench, just watching the field, as if they're just going through the motions. Thats the entire game. Thats what happened vs the Dolphins.

There have been players commenting on lack of heart on this team. Jenkins was the loudest about it. Players have to motivate themselves. If Beason never "called out" Peppers, who knows what kind of play we would be getting right now. Peppers talked about not being used right. That along with the defensive coaches just leaving, tells you it had to be Fox. Him acting like a co-defensive coordinator and controlling the defense. Peppers and the coaches along with other players were tired of his defensive philosophy "bend but dont break".

If players recognize no heart and lack of coaching, then you fail as a coach. Not to mention there are players talking to the media about the play calling. Its a sliding slope. If Fox isn't doing his job, then its safe to say its the talent of the team that has been carrying the coach. Talent is good, but it can only get you so far if you don't have the proper coaching.

How come Fox has only developed 1 good receiver? How come Fox hasn't developed another QB? How come Fox recently hasnt developed Defensive tackles? How come Fox can't develop a freaking safety? Why does Fox stick with the worst special teams coach in the NFL? Why is Fox piss poor at game managment inside 2 mintues? And why does he absolutely suck when it comes to making half time adjustments? His time is up.

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dksmith17 Newbie

dksmith17

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That was Fox's first year, the Gameday mag just says what his strengths are and what he is bringing to the team. Comparing 2002 to right now is like comparing night and day. Total opposites.

If you look at the sidelines, you'll see the lack of passion from time to time. The team just sitting on the bench, just watching the field, as if they're just going through the motions. Thats the entire game. Thats what happened vs the Dolphins.

There have been players commenting on lack of heart on this team. Jenkins was the loudest about it. Players have to motivate themselves. If Beason never "called out" Peppers, who knows what kind of play we would be getting right now. Peppers talked about not being used right. That along with the defensive coaches just leaving, tells you it had to be Fox. Him acting like a co-defensive coordinator and controlling the defense. Peppers and the coaches along with other players were tired of his defensive philosophy "bend but dont break".

If players recognize no heart and lack of coaching, then you fail as a coach. Not to mention there are players talking to the media about the play calling. Its a sliding slope. If Fox isn't doing his job, then its safe to say its the talent of the team that has been carrying the coach. Talent is good, but it can only get you so far if you don't have the proper coaching.

How come Fox has only developed 1 good receiver? How come Fox hasn't developed another QB? How come Fox recently hasnt developed Defensive tackles? How come Fox can't develop a freaking safety? Why does Fox stick with the worst special teams coach in the NFL? Why is Fox piss poor at game managment inside 2 mintues? And why does he absolutely suck when it comes to making half time adjustments? His time is up.

So now we have talent?

If you didn't notice, Fox had the best regular season record in the NFC last year with according to you, a failure at QB, an unmotivated team, no safety or defensive tackles, one receiver, awful halftime adjustments, and awful special team. Geez, he must be awful.

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AceMan Proficient

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So now we have talent?

If you didn't notice, Fox had the best regular season record in the NFC last year with according to you, a failure at QB, an unmotivated team, no safety or defensive tackles, one receiver, awful halftime adjustments, and awful special team. Geez, he must be awful.

We also had an extremely weak schedule that year.

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KillerKat Grand Master

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So now we have talent?

If you didn't notice, Fox had the best regular season record in the NFC last year with according to you, a failure at QB, an unmotivated team, no safety or defensive tackles, one receiver, awful halftime adjustments, and awful special team. Geez, he must be awful.

When did I say we didn't have talent?

Last year was just about all due to Williams and Stewart. Oh and not to mention a WEAK SCHEDULE, as said above.

Jake had very little to do with last year. Last year was Jakes worst year besides this year with his highest number of bad games he's ever had. Charles Godfrey sucked last year, so yeah we had no safety. Our Defensive Tackles sucked the second half of last year, so yeah we didn't have them either. Mark Jones is the only reason our return game was good last season. Last season was successful due to the run game and the defense for the fist half of the season and Mark Jones getting us in good field position. Then the defense started getting worse. And did you see what happened in our playoff game? Terrible game by Jake and Fox.

How many times are we going to keep seeing Fox stick with a game plan that doesn't work? He's a failure at making adjustments.

With just about all the same players coming back, you would think we would have similar results don't you?

After Jake's meltdown in the playoffs, they didn't bring in more competition through the draft or FA. Instead they sign him to a five year deal. Fox calls him after the Philly game and tells him he's sticking with him no matter how bad he stinks it up. What coach tells a player who is hurting the team that? I can understand if he said something like keep your head up, etc. But to say that? That gives Jake a free pass to do whatever he wants.

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dksmith17 Newbie

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When did I say we didn't have talent?

Last year was just about all due to Williams and Stewart. Oh and not to mention a WEAK SCHEDULE, as said above.

Jake had very little to do with last year. Last year was Jakes worst year besides this year with his highest number of bad games he's ever had. Charles Godfrey sucked last year, so yeah we had no safety. Our Defensive Tackles sucked the second half of last year, so yeah we didn't have them either. Mark Jones is the only reason our return game was good last season. Last season was successful due to the run game and the defense for the fist half of the season and Mark Jones getting us in good field position. Then the defense started getting worse. And did you see what happened in our playoff game? Terrible game by Jake and Fox.

How many times are we going to keep seeing Fox stick with a game plan that doesn't work? He's a failure at making adjustments.

With just about all the same players coming back, you would think we would have similar results don't you?

After Jake's meltdown in the playoffs, they didn't bring in more competition through the draft or FA. Instead they sign him to a five year deal. Fox calls him after the Philly game and tells him he's sticking with him no matter how bad he stinks it up. What coach tells a player who is hurting the team that? I can understand if he said something like keep your head up, etc. But to say that? That gives Jake a free pass to do whatever he wants.

Since when can RBs carry a whole team? I wonder what Barry Sanders or Stephen Jackson would say about that?

The point of this thread was stating that the team was "unmotivated" but somehow only I was able to identify one player that fits that description.

--thats odd

You argued further that Fox only won because of talent and also could not develop his talent.

--that is just laughable.

Listen I am all open ears to reasonable criticism, but this just does not cut it.

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