Should we draft IOWA center Tyler Linderbaum in the 1st round or go with a LT?

[KillerKat]

Just now, Clicheking said:

We 100% need to go O-line so with that said let's draft Tyler because we can trade back and get him. Because one pick in the top three rounds won't cut it. Whatever pick we get, let's use that to draft OL as well. We MUST walk out of these draft with two starters on OL.

Yep. Trading back and drafting Tyler would be ideal. 

[Jared Patterson]

Why not sign Ethan Pocic: Center from Seattle (Scott Fitterer took him in the second round at Seattle) (slightly above average.) Then trade back in the draft to around 12 and take the best available LT. Cross, Ekwonu, Penning, Petit-Frere, Green. Get our second and third back.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Jared Patterson

[Jackie Lee]

21 minutes ago, mickeye76 said:

As much as it may hurt to do so.  We need to trade down.  Which means passing on top tier talent.   But we have multiple holes on the oline.  An example of a trade that could benefit us.  

Las Vegas Raiders move up.  

6 for 22, 53 and 84.  

22. Ikem Ekwonu NC St.  

53. Zion Johnson Boston College

84.  Jarrett Patterson Notre Dame

BC, Zion, Jp, Ikem, Moton.

Now I get the that guy won't be there argument.  That's why I'm gonna rank the guards and centers.

OG - 1. Ikem 1b.  Green 2. Wanya Morris 

2b. Zion Johnson 3. Thayer Munford. 3b. Nick Broeker. 

OC - 1. Tyler 2. Emil Ekiyor 3. Jarrett 4.  James Empey.  

I am not looking real hard at LT because I'm starting to believe in BC.  If given a legit partner on the left side and a full off season at his preferred position he could improve greatly.  

Yup, I don't think we'll have to jump that far back but agree with the overall sentiment. I wish we'd seen more of BC at this point but since the whole interior is a glaring issue I'd like to trade back and go G/C or C/G back to back and get it over with. None of these guys can be worse than Jordan/Miller, and they'll have some level of motivation/excitement to actually at least try to show some effort one would think. I'm not sure I can think of another coach we've had that would keep these guards out there this many horrible games in a row, I guess Rhule is just that stubborn because he chose them and doesn't want to admit failed evaluation

[SCO96]

9 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Why not sign Ethan Pocic: Center from Seattle (Scott Fitterer took him in the second round at Seattle) (slightly above average.) Then trade back in the draft to around 12 and take the best available LT. Cross, Ekwonu, Penning, Petit-Frere, Green. Get our second and third back.

We can't assume that Pocic (or any good player) wants to come to Carolina. I can't figure out why any top rated FA would want to come to the Panthers and play under the current coaching staff, unless this is

1)  their last stop in their career,

2) their desperate for playing time and want to get off the pine, or

3) we're offering the most money.

If someone want to join a team that has a strong foundation and contribute to legitimate contender for the next several years, then they need to steer clear of Charolotte, NC until the team has a drastic make over.

Edited January 4, 2022 by SCO96

[BlitzMonster]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

Quick question for all of the folks saying that we can get a quality center in the 2nd or 3rd.

First and foremost, with what picks? Second and most importantly, who? Zach Tom out of Wake Forest? A guy that has at best been seen as a late 3rd rounder? The drop off is HUGE and you still end up overdrafting a guy.

In general, starting C can be found in the 2nd or 3rd.   Sometimes as late as the 4th. 

This year, who knows.  But that's generally their value.  

Case in point - this guy pretty good center named Ryan Kalil.  You may have heard of him. 

NFL Draft:2007 / Round: 2 / Pick: 59

 

[rayzor]

Was Ryan Kalil worth a first round pick? I know we didn't give up one for him, but if we had would it have been worth it?

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Was Ryan Kalil worth a first round pick? I know we didn't give up one for him, but if we had would it have been worth it?

First round sure, number 6 overall…. not so sure…

[SmokinwithWilly]

22 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

First round sure, number 6 overall…. not so sure…

Would the Arizona Cardinals have taken him over Levi Brown in hindsight. Probably. The Raiders would have definitely taken him over the walrus if they had to chose between the 2. 

[hepcat]

3 hours ago, davos said:

Toney was picked where the Bears were and there was a pretty big dropoff around that pick to 2nd round tier guys IMO.  The 2nd round is where we got too cute.  I wanted Slater badly (before the draft) but I do see the argument with Horn even though another defensive player that high was hard to swallow after the Teddy-Brady campaign.

Could have taken some completely formidable LT prospects in Sam Cosmi or Dillon Radunz in R2.  I really don't see how they valued  a trade back/pick accumulation that netted Terrace Marshall THAT much higher than just grabbing someone to fill our biggest need outside of QB.

Bears gave up a 1st this season which would have been a top 10 pick. Giants set up to be in good shape with that extra pick 

[BlitzMonster]

31 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Was Ryan Kalil worth a first round pick? I know we didn't give up one for him, but if we had would it have been worth it?

After the fact we know Kalil made 5 Pro Bowls so yeah, he would have been worth it.  

But we don't know the future during the draft.  Coaches just make their best player evaluations.  And they aren't always accurate. 

Just think if the player selected isn't a Pro Bowler but ends up being an average center.  The coach would never hear the end of it in the media and from the fans.  It would likely be the end of his career for wasting a high pick like that.   

So it's a very bold move that you better be a secure coach if you want to make it.  Like Bill Belichick or somebody of his stature.   Because if you're wrong, you're gone.  

[rayzor]

The big thing is....I really don't trust this coaching staffs evaluation process when it comes to offense, esp. OL and QB.

If we had someone competent making the decision I would have no problem taking a center with pick #6 if he could be the caliber guy Kalil was. Kalil was an anchor we needed on the OL and I wish we could have built around better.

I just don't trust these clowns to do anything right on the OL and not sure why anyone would trust them. 

[chbright]

There are a few decent centers in this draft with good experience after Tyler L.

Wanting to see what Keegan Cryder does as he's one on my radar later in the draft as it stands in draftnik circles today. 43 consecutive starts for a top rushing team every year he has been there. I get it Wyoming as the school hence waiting to see so post bowl games, but dude has been in the running last 2 years for best C in the nation. 

Another is Colon Newell from ISU. Another guy that's been on national watch list for best C in the country for a while now and long time starter. Same, want to see him in the senior bowl and the like as well as the combine to see how he stacks up. Another program that could move the ball on the ground. Lost luster during the year, but might be more due to C not getting pub and Tyler L running away as the beast he is. So curious to see him in all the post season stuff.

 

Alec Lindstrom would be another, and LOTS of pedigree there, from dad to brother. He will be a fun one imo to watch.  Rated fairly well this season. Might be a touch undersized and average at the point of attack. Did well per pff in pass  protect. 

 

Center is the cerebral position in the line so even most of the grading likely will be from scouts and teams watching line calls as much as how they held up or pushed the line. Some of that is why I blame the current group on the center. Calls and confused linemen all year, and center is typically the main guy to call out protections along with the QB. Ryan was a bad ass at that and really made a world of difference anytime he was in on both the run game and pass pro.  Everyone played better when he was there. So that's gonna be the real find on these guys: who can get the rest of the unit all into the right call to maximize the unit.

[MHS831]

About drafting Tyler Lindebaum at #6--a 289 lb center (yes, he is a beast).  I can't get on board with drafting a center in the top 10. The first rounder is all the draft capital we have--it has to work for us.  There seems to be a dropoff around the 16th pick--trade back to the middle of the round and take the best OL available. Lindebaum, Cross, that T/G from NC State--one will be there.  The only OL I want at #6 is Neal.  The others?  I am trading back and getting one later in the round in addition to a second rounder.

[Icege]

7 minutes ago, chbright said:

There are a few decent centers in this draft with good experience after Tyler L.

Wanting to see what Keegan Cryder does as he's one on my radar later in the draft as it stands in draftnik circles today. 43 consecutive starts for a top rushing team every year he has been there. I get it Wyoming as the school hence waiting to see so post bowl games, but dude has been in the running last 2 years for best C in the nation. 

Another is Colon Newell from ISU. Another guy that's been on national watch list for best C in the country for a while now and long time starter. Same, want to see him in the senior bowl and the like as well as the combine to see how he stacks up. Another program that could move the ball on the ground. Lost luster during the year, but might be more due to C not getting pub and Tyler L running away as the beast he is. So curious to see him in all the post season stuff.

 

Alec Lindstrom would be another, and LOTS of pedigree there, from dad to brother. He will be a fun one imo to watch.  Rated fairly well this season. Might be a touch undersized and average at the point of attack. Did well per pff in pass  protect. 

 

Center is the cerebral position in the line so even most of the grading likely will be from scouts and teams watching line calls as much as how they held up or pushed the line. Some of that is why I blame the current group on the center. Calls and confused linemen all year, and center is typically the main guy to call out protections along with the QB. Ryan was a bad ass at that and really made a world of difference anytime he was in on both the run game and pass pro.  Everyone played better when he was there. So that's gonna be the real find on these guys: who can get the rest of the unit all into the right call to maximize the unit.

Hard pass on Lindstrom, but Newell is an intriguing option late if the team goes QB or LT in the first. I'll have to check Cryder out. I've been pounding the "draft a starting center!" drum since the Paradis signing.

Anybody that wants to see how much having a center that doesn't understand football hurts, just go back and watch the game vs. TB when Tecklenburg was sliding protection away from the blitz. -_-