Just watch Sam's feet.

[raleigh-panther]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I still think he could potentially have been fixed here if a couple of conditions had been met:

1) a quality offensive line in place

2) a better coaching staff

Instead, we got a line and coaches that weren't any better than what he had with the Jets.

Even so, there were good results early on, and those were not an illusion.

They were a house of cards though. And it all fell apart in a heartbeat, which tells me that Darnold was too fragile to withstand any more.

He basically needed near perfect conditions for this project to work, and that clearly didn't exist here. What we had was pretty closely equivalent to performing complicated brain surgery in the middle of a battlefield.

So the question now becomes could another staff rebuild him?

Personally, I don't think so. Not into a starter anyway. It might conceivably be possible to coach him up to being a quality backup.

But again, this staff aint the ones to do that, or...well, anything

Disagree on this one 

some college players are never going to be NFL level players, they just aren’t 

Darnold is one of those guys   always has been. Always will be If I’m Tepper, Rhule is gone for this mistake alone 

the qb ranks are littered with ncaa Heisman trophy winners and contenders who fail in the pros 

also, a qb should elevate what is around his not drop them lower.  

[cookinbrak]

If that was supposed to be a H&L, who was gonna take the lateral? #96 for the Saints?

[KatsAzz]

1 hour ago, joemac said:

PLENTY of blame to go around for everyone.  It can be true that Sam sucks, Rhule sucks AND the o-line sucks. 

That just about sums the Panthers sitution up perfectly.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Disagree on this one 

some college players are never going to be NFL level players, they just aren’t 

Darnold is one of those guys   always has been. Always will be If I’m Tepper, Rhule is gone for this mistake alone 

the qb ranks are littered with ncaa Heisman trophy winners and contenders who fail in the pros 

also, a qb should elevate what is around his not drop them lower.  

Coaching makes a huge difference.

Darnold has talent, but he's been David Carr'd at this point.

And hell, I think even Carr could have become a solid NFL starter but from what I've read, the coaching he received his first few seasons was as sh+tty as Darnold's.

[Proudiddy]

It's what I've been saying, that has been clear since Cam came back.  Look at the difference between them.  Cam takes the snap and stands tall.  He drops back, reads the defense, and tries to hit the read that is open based off what he sees.  Now, sometimes he is forced to do so from awkward stances or while falling back, etc., but he is calm, cool, and collected.  He only runs when he sees there is nothing there.  Sam takes a snap, and his feet are immediately jittery and all over the place, he more often than not is looking down at his OL and the pressure from the opposing rusher so he can't or doesn't read the defense, and he essentially is what I like to call the "one-read and run" QB.  He's so scared of pressure and getting hit, that he tries to look for that first read and if its not there, he is tucking it and running.  There have been exceptions, but more often than not, he is already thinking of running before the ball is in his hands...  and honestly, there are plays where he immediately tucks it as soon as he gets the snap even though he is looking downfield.  He is abysmal.

The common denominator between both Sam and Cam is that regardless of how they look, or how much better Cam processes and controls a game, neither of them can do much because the offensive scheme and coaching is so fuging horrible.  Cam is obviously more productive and capable, and again, I maintain he could still be a Top 15 QB in the league, but this offense is the worst I have ever seen.  I didnt actively watch the game yesterday, as I said, I am no longer dedicating my Sundays to Rhule coached teams (and man it felt so liberating) but from the bits I saw, it was the same old crap...  he got his boy in there, and they're throwing the ball to a swing route 3 yards behind the LOs with no blockers on 3rd and 9 or something like that.  4th and 10?  Let's throw it to the RB on a check route sitting at the LOS.  3rd and 12?  Let's throw a 2 yard drag route.

It's the same poo we saw with Teddy last year.  It's what we saw with Sam this season.  It's what we saw with Cam when he was in there.  It is a flawed system and again, idc if they had Rodgers, Brees, or Brady in there - unless they were calling their own plays, they are going to have career-worst years and look like pure poo. 

I have never seen anything like it...  I just don't understand the goal of it all?  And again, we saw the same fatal flaws in the scheme last season with Teddy, and we had a better OL, so it's not that they don't have time...  the plays themselves are complete poo.

I say all of that to say, Sam looks horrible because he is horrible.  I just don't think he's a starting QB because he can't read defenses, at least not consistently.  But, this offense is worse, and it makes any QB that plays in it look their absolute worst as well...  but, there is no point in running this experiment with Sam anymore.  It is a lost cause.  And I want to bring Cam back to lead us until we can draft and develop a young guy, but honestly, thats what makes this Rhule situation so hopeless...  it's clear that as long as he is here, and as long as we're running his idea of a system, it doesn't fuging matter who we have on offense - it is going to be a trainwreck.

[lightsout]

Sam and Cam can each still be good NFL QBs. Talent is there for both. Cam can't play on this team with this OL. No QB can. But given an OL that can get push in the run game and pass protect, with pass designs that actually get guys open like a normal offense, he'd do well enough. I really do believe it.

Sam has the arm talent. Argue with me all you want, it's true. He needs a sports psychologist. That's the truth. He has some anxieties that absolutely inhibit his play. The brain controls the body, he can't possibly play well if he can't settle his mind down and go through his progressions smoothly while not panicking.

Those first three games were great for Sam. I think he started showing some real confidence. It's easy to forget and wave away as being bad teams, but that's precisely the point. He was playing as well as anybody could hope and exceeding expectations. Then the OL got figured out by DCs and pressure started really coming. And our offense as a whole started struggling worse and worse. Sam fell apart and here we are. I don't think it is as simple as he played well against bad teams and got exposed. I think he got fuged up by the fact that he was in this situation in NY and got here and it seemed better for a month before becoming what he feared most. A team with an OL that can't protect him and the paralysis by analysis where he can't focus on what he is supposed to do. It's not unfixable, but it is a hindrance he has and a big one.

I don't think we need to keep him and hope we can get him right. This team has far too many problems to invest into that sort of project. But somebody likely will and if they can get his head right, he will be a solid middle tier QB for at least a few seasons somewhere.

[LinvilleGorge]

17 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Disagree on this one 

some college players are never going to be NFL level players, they just aren’t 

Darnold is one of those guys   always has been. Always will be If I’m Tepper, Rhule is gone for this mistake alone 

the qb ranks are littered with ncaa Heisman trophy winners and contenders who fail in the pros 

also, a qb should elevate what is around his not drop them lower.  

He wasn't even that good at USC. He was always one of those "potential" guys.

Take him away from a loaded college roster and put him on a middling team and he would've been a late round flyer type of draft pick... because that's basically what he was as a QB. Raw as hell but had physical talent to work with. Late round flyer.

 

[KatsAzz]

I am in no way defending  Sam Darnold because i feel his highest upside in the NFL would be in a backup role.

However, note that Tom Brady, the G.O.A.T.,  was  shaky and inept when New Orleans Saints turned the heat up and got to him the last time they played Tampa Bay.

Only a hand full of NFL QB's can thrive when the pass rush pressure is put on them, so until the Panthers offensive line problem is fixed, it would be foolish to think they can somehow find a quarterback that will have success playing behind the current one.

Edited January 3, 2022 by KatsAzz

[CRA]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Coaching makes a huge difference.

Darnold has talent, but he's been David Carr'd at this point.

And hell, I think even Carr could have become a solid NFL starter but from what I've read, the coaching he received his first few seasons was as sh+tty as Darnold's.

But are you David Carr’d when your play never actually changes.  

again, he was the same happy foot, can’t read a field, turnover machine at USC.   His turnover stats and fumbles in college were absurd. 

only difference is in the pros there isn’t a massive talent gap on his team vs the opponents to make it not a big deal 

[raleigh-panther]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He wasn't even that good at USC. He was always one of those "potential" guys.

Take him away from a loaded college roster and put him on a middling team and he would've been a late round flyer type of draft pick... because that's basically what he was as a QB. Raw as hell but had physical talent to work with. Late round flyer.

 

Yep. I had a USC alum text me ‘I’m sorry’ when Rhule traded for him 

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, hepcat said:

Sam was broken before he got here and the Panthers managed to make him worse. Burn it down, this ain’t working. 

Truer words cannot be said on this.

[Tr3ach]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

While not good.  PJ and Cam don’t play scared.  Sam does. 

If they play just as bad does it matter if they're scared or not? 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

If they play just as bad does it matter if they're scared or not? 

In the end? Yeah, I think it matters if your QB plays scared or not.  Because those situations will always exist.  With improved OL play….it can collapse quickly.   

No point having a panicking and turnover prone QB.  Fix the OL.  Sam still is Sam. 

[rippadonn]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Pavlov simply rang a bell when they were about to eat.  Then the bell caused them to salivate with no food--so this is a good example.  Imagine a bell ringing every time Sam got sacked.  Now ring the bell when the ball is snapped and there is no pressure.

Love me some Rotties. That's a beautiful girl. Thx