Cam Newton is now top 25 in all time Rushing Touchdowns

[Catsfan69]

3 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

The only season PFF records his "accuracy" numbers before his major injuries was 2018 where only 13% of his throws were considered bad throws, putting him in the top/bottom 10 of the NFL in terms of bad throw %.  Maybe you assume his arm was worse than other QBs because you watched him more?  Yes Cam missed receivers high on occasion and didn't always have the best touch, but he threw incredible balls and won us games with his arm all the time. 

as to an elite arm, you're moving the goal posts.  He was an elite QB.  Not all elite QBs have elite arms (hell for that matter a lot of them don't, lol).  If you want to break Cam's rushing out from his passing you can, but that isn't what judges someone's status as elite... just your personal opinion of them.

as to not being honest, most posters here would acknowledge he isn't a surefire lock to the HoF.  You're the one that comes in here and basically says he wasn't a good QB lol

He was an above average QB and great Football player.  Those aren't the same things. 

When he was healthy he was the 10th or 12th best QB in the league which makes him not elite 

There are tons of guys I would have traded him for if life was like a video game.

Elite QBs you aren't willing to trade for anyone. 

[mav1234]

Just now, Catsfan69 said:

He just stole the TDs from them.

They'd get us inside the 3 then he'd keep the ball. 

this is 100% not true, and it has been shown before.  but let's entertain this.  so our RBs certainly would be pumping out those TDs when Cam wasn't in games right? 

Chubba has 4 rushing TDs on the year.  He got 2 in his first 5 starts before Cam, 2 in his last few games with Cam.  No noticeable difference.  In the 5 games before Cam started, we had what, 2 rushing TDs?  We've had 7 since he has started.  His 5 are the difference LOL.

In 2018, Cam missed 2 games; all 7 of CMCs rushing TDs came in games WITH Cam.

In 2014, Cam missed 2 games; all 5 of JStew's rushing TDs came in games WITH Cam.

Cam takes away from his passing TDs by rushing, not the RB carries.  In fact, the ability for us to run an option offense may increase the potential of some of those RBs getting scores, because the lines they had to play behind have been so abysmal at times lol.

[Basbear]

Is CAM a HOFer????

Its a tough one for me.....I feel yes with a few years of waiting.....but you can make a case for and against..... Id also note my standards are higher than the current HOF ones......its not hall of very good.......and Cam is/was very good for parts of his career......its a tough one...

[mav1234]

34 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He was an above average QB and great Football player.  Those aren't the same things. 

When he was healthy he was the 10th or 12th best QB in the league which makes him not elite 

There are tons of guys I would have traded him for if life was like a video game.

Elite QBs you aren't willing to trade for anyone. 

this doesn't really track with the reality tho. you are projecting your own biases.  the numbers don't bear this out...

He was top 10 in his prime EASILY and overall often top 5. the only legit argument against Cam is longevity IMO. the rest is bias / preference.

PFF's AV attempts to catch the value of every season of every player.  it is far from perfect.  but it is one quasi-objective way for us to compare the list of QBs you came up with earlier.  so let's look at Cam during his pre injury prime and his peers during this same period (to address the bold, which IMO ended in 2015), and then up to 2018, which includes multiple injured seasons:

 

did I forget any names from your list?

Edited December 21, 2021 by mav1234
brees copied twice, woops

[Catsfan69]

46 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

this doesn't really track with the reality tho. you are projecting your own biases.  the numbers don't bear this out...

He was top 10 in his prime EASILY and overall often top 5. the only legit argument against Cam is longevity IMO. the rest is bias / preference.

PFF's AV attempts to catch the value of every season of every player.  it is far from perfect.  but it is one quasi-objective way for us to compare the list of QBs you came up with earlier.  so let's look at Cam during his pre injury prime and his peers during this same period (to address the bold, which IMO ended in 2015), and then up to 2018, which includes multiple injured seasons:

 

did I forget any names from your list?

I'll make this simple for you.

All names in their prime would you trade Cam for straight up in his prime. 

Brady

PAYTON

Breese

Rivers

Stafford

Wilson 

Roethlisberger 

Eli

Ryan

Rogers

Carr

 

If you can name more than two you'd trade him for then no he's not HOF.

 

[Silent Majority]

Just now, Catsfan69 said:

I'll make this simple for you.

All names in their prime would you trade Cam for straight up in his prime. 

Brady

PAYTON

Breese

Rivers

Stafford

Wilson 

Roethlisberger 

Eli

Ryan

Rogers

Carr

 

If you can name more than two you'd trade him for then no he's not HOF.

 

Your argument that Cam isn't a hall of famer is because you would trade him for 6 hall of famers and some personal preference QBs? Looool smh. Man o man.

[mav1234]

39 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

I'll make this simple for you.

All names in their prime would you trade Cam for straight up in his prime. 

Brady

PAYTON

Breese

Rivers

Stafford

Wilson 

Roethlisberger 

Eli

Ryan

Rogers

Carr

 

If you can name more than two you'd trade him for then no he's not HOF.

 

So you think only 2 players on this list are going to the HOF? Lol.

[Catsfan69]

21 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

So you think only 2 players on this list are going to the HOF? Lol.

No I'm saying you don't trade a hofr for an equal commodity. 

See if I was GB for example there is nobody I'd trade Rogers for.

Same for Brady Payton and maybe Breese. I'm not trading those guys at all.

Big Ben I'm only considering a trade for Brady or Rogers.

 

With Cam there's a lot of guys you insta trade for.

BTW you didn't answer the question. 

[Catsfan69]

45 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

So you think only 2 players on this list are going to the HOF? Lol.

You have reading comprehension problems don't you?

[mav1234]

6 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

No I'm saying you don't trade a hofr for an equal commodity. 

See if I was GB for example there is nobody I'd trade Rogers for.

Same for Brady Payton and maybe Breese. I'm not trading those guys at all.

Big Ben I'm only considering a trade for Brady or Rogers.

 

With Cam there's a lot of guys you insta trade for.

BTW you didn't answer the question. 

Why should I? You claimed Cam wasn't even top 10 in his prime, I showed you numbers that disagreed and you ignored them lol.  In his prime Cam averaged seasons in the top 5 of all QBs.

The issue with Cam is longevity, not performance in his window.

There is absolutely zero chance that Cam is traded for any of those guys you list after the 2015 season... hell It's even unlikely he gets traded for any of them in his first few years either lol, because he was so promising.

Now looking back, it's easy to argue a trade because of longevity.  But Cam had one of the best rookie seasons for a QB ever and had several great seasons after it, and while still young, had an incredible MVP season.  In his prime he doesn't get traded either.

[Catsfan69]

33 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Why should I? You claimed Cam wasn't even top 10 in his prime, I showed you numbers that disagreed and you ignored them lol.  In his prime Cam averaged seasons in the top 5 of all QBs.

The issue with Cam is longevity, not performance in his window.

There is absolutely zero chance that Cam is traded for any of those guys you list after the 2015 season... hell It's even unlikely he gets traded for any of them in his first few years either lol, because he was so promising.

Now looking back, it's easy to argue a trade because of longevity.  But Cam had one of the best rookie seasons for a QB ever and had several great seasons after it, and while still young, had an incredible MVP season.  In his prime he doesn't get traded either.

Answer this healthy Cam in May of 2016.

NE calls and says Brady for Cam straight up. Do you pull the trigger?

How about GB and Rogers?

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Maybe. 

I just think when it comes down to Championship or no Championship you need a QB that can win with his arm and make great throws in crunch time.

Russ is Duel threat weighted towards throwing. 

Mahomes is also Weighted towards throwing. 

Young again duel threat weighted towards throwing. 

I can't remember a QB winning a Superbowl who was weighted towards running. Of course I could be mistaken. 

 

(Runs per season/career comp%)

Roger Staubach (50/57.0), Steve Young (70/64.3), Patrick Mahomes (60/65.9), Russell Wilson (90/65.1), John Elway (50/56.9), Aaron Rodgers (60/65.2), Joe Theismann (40/56.7), Brett Favre (50/62.0)

 

Cam Newton (100/60.0)

Your "weighted" argument is weak. All QBs throw the ball. Cam has thrown for as many yards as Troy Aikman and Kurt Warner, and Cam's career INT% is lower than both of them. Cam is as good if not a better passer than John Elway, Troy Aikman, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Joe Theismann, Jim McMahon, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, Terry Bradshaw, and Joe Namath. That accounts for more than half of the SB winning QBs. What SB winning QBs have when it comes to setting up a winning drive is receivers who have amazing concentration and good hands, OLs who don't make stupid mistakes that end drives, and coaches that call plays to their teams strength when it comes down to the passing game to move the ball down the field for a game winning drive.

Will there be rare QBs who would be an improvement over Cam Newton? Yes. Is your weighted to passing argument garbage? Yes.

[Proudiddy]

He's no doubt a HOF'er and should be a first ballot.  I dont care what haters say, the dude has more rushing TDs than HOF RBs and held numerous records for passing TDs, as well as games with both a rushing and passing TD.  Point being, the league has never seen a player like him before and likely never will again.  And in regards to trading him for any other HOF-level QB?  Prime Cam?  2015 Cam?  I'm not trading him for anyone.  His ability to produce TDs on his own was unmatched due to his ability as a runner in addition to having an absolute cannon with good to great accuracy - and he literally has the ball in his hands, every play.  He is obviously past his prime now, and he still is the single hardest player to stop running the ball on any play he takes the snap while he's on the field.  It is an unreal, videogame-like skillset.  Sure, other guys may have been consistently more accurate, but no other QB outside of maybe Brady or Manning in their primes (because of their ability to adjust, counter, and call their own plays and then execute on every play) was harder to stop, and again, Cam was probably harder because you couldn't take away both the pass and the run.  Period.

Also, just saw he has the most rushing TDs since 2011...  more than Derrick Henry and Adrian Peterson.

[Silent Majority]

29 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

 

(Runs per season/career comp%)

Roger Staubach (50/57.0), Steve Young (70/64.3), Patrick Mahomes (60/65.9), Russell Wilson (90/65.1), John Elway (50/56.9), Aaron Rodgers (60/65.2), Joe Theismann (40/56.7), Brett Favre (50/62.0)

 

Cam Newton (100/60.0)

Your "weighted" argument is weak. All QBs throw the ball. Cam has thrown for as many yards as Troy Aikman and Kurt Warner, and Cam's career INT% is lower than both of them. Cam is as good if not a better passer than John Elway, Troy Aikman, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Joe Theismann, Jim McMahon, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, Terry Bradshaw, and Joe Namath. That accounts for more than half of the SB winning QBs. What SB winning QBs have when it comes to setting up a winning drive is receivers who have amazing concentration and good hands, OLs who don't make stupid mistakes that end drives, and coaches that call plays to their teams strength when it comes down to the passing game to move the ball down the field for a game winning drive.

Will there be rare QBs who would be an improvement over Cam Newton? Yes. Is your weighted to passing argument garbage? Yes.

Emphatically! Imagine 100 fire emojis here.