Are fans the only ones screaming for Rhule's head/firing?

[CarolinaLivin]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

To be clear, what you're seeing in this article doesn't likely reflect anyone's opinion but Callihan's.

He's arguing for Rhule to get at least one more year based on the "his college teams turned it around in year three" argument. Others have used that as well, but the problem is it's a false equivalent.

This isn't college, and what works in college all too frequently doesn't work in the pros. For evidence of that, just take a look at the effectiveness of Matt Rhule's game plans.

All indications are that the vast majority of fans all over (not just in this forum) are pretty well ready to move on from Rhule. As far as the people in whose power it is to actually make that determination, we have no idea what their feelings are right now or what they will be.

All we can do is let them loudly and clearly know ours.

Yeah I fully agree with this. I just wanted to hear from the small group of people that want him here for another year. 

I've heard (and seen for myself) every reason to step away and hire a new, more experienced coach.

Giving the "keep Rhule" crowd a chance to speak as to why

[Ricky Spanish]

Rhule's college Team's first and second season records:

Temple Year 1 - 2-10

Temple Year 2 - 6-6 - Started the year 5-2, ended the year 2-5

Baylor Year 1 - 1-11

Baylor Year 2 - 7-6 - Started 4-3, ended 3-3, Won a bowl game

Carolina Year 1 - 5-11

Carolina Year 2 - 5-8 (so far and trending down)

So why is the fanbase so pessimistic? The lack of resources we have to actually improve the team going into year 3 due to the moves made in years one and two. Trading away future picks is a recipe for disaster for a franchise in rebuilding mode. The areas we need significant improvement in (QB and OL) are both expensive, and significant. In college you don't need a good QB to compete. In the NFL you do. We are limited in our resources needed to address those two very big issues, and we are limited due to the boners the coach has made trying to address those issues. This gives the fanbase little faith that the coach is capable of actually fixing things. If he couldn't with an excess of resources, how will he with limited resources?

 

If the panthers close out the year 4-0, I'd be for giving Rhule another shot because it would look like his program is finally clicking, and we'd be beating some good teams in there. I don't see that happening though. His MO involves his teams showing improvement year 1 into year 2. Year two in Carolina, we look worse as a team overall and have a very real chance of statistically having a worse record than his first year as a coach. That is never a good trend to see in new head coaching hire, as it shows the team isn't getting better.

Time to move on. 

[raleigh-panther]

2 hours ago, CarolinaLivin said:

Which I agree with. I don't think Rhule is a bad coach. I just think his "culture"/"structure" is built more for the college level. And I don't think he can adapt/keep up. Every coach has a couple roster moves they mess up on. So overall im not mad with the roster moves, obviously could've been better at OL and QB, but getting out-coached on a weekly basis with little to no improvement... I can't deal with. New coach or not, you gotta show improvement and the ability to adapt.

Sorry but I disagree 

his personnel decisions are catastrophic 

Add to it  getting outcoached and game planned every week and here we are 

you must have the players, the corner stone players, to win in today’s nfl  

this isn’t like college where there a few great players and the rest or just guys 

the Nfl is the top 5% of all college players over time 

now if Rhule didn’t want or have control of personnel, then that person should be gone 

bringing in pieces of poo like Irving. Efflien  et Al . All on him 

[CarolinaLivin]

7 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Sorry but I disagree 

his personnel decisions are catastrophic 

Add to it  getting outcoached and game planned every week and here we are 

you must have the players, the corner stone players, to win in today’s nfl  

this isn’t like college where there a few great players and the rest or just guys 

the Nfl is the top 5% of all college players over time 

now if Rhule didn’t want or have control of personnel, then that person should be gone 

bringing in pieces of poo like Irving. Efflien  et Al . All on him 

What he did made sense. I fully understand that it could have been better at QB/OL. Those moves will forever be tied to his name.

Year 1 we were a rebuild team. He turned over a roster, we had a bridge QB. Made sense for 5 wins. Wanted more but couldn't complain with what we had.

Year 2 this team has a lot more talent. Very Questionable QB change. and Very Questionable pickups at OL. Understanding this was a rebuild team helped it make some sense out of the moves he made. But when we started moving in "win now" mode... everything was lost. Year 2 is what mkes me want to get rid of Rhule. Like I said Coaches make mistakes. Busts happen. Projects fail. But if can't improve from those mistakes... gotta move on. He is trying to adapt to the NFL in a very "desperate manner". And the problems he is facing aren't problems he inherited... they are problems he created... that's why we must move on.

Long way of agreeing with you while adding some. I may be generous in my feelings toward roster moves but im looking at all moves not just the OL/QB, not saying you weren't

[d-dave]

Another off season isn't going to fix his coaching.  We haven't seen a coach improve in how he evaluates players, how he manages the game, or delivering a message.

 

That's the biggest problem I have regarding keep Rhule for year three.  He's not shown any growth as a professional, and that's the problem.

[CBird]

Straight talk, painful, but keep Rhule for another year. Build the O line in the draft.  Next year is a write off, play Darnold, let Cam walk,.......#1 overall pick in 2023.....QB young out of Bama, and hire Bienemy or another offensive minded coach to turn this thing around

[onmyown]

honestly what does it matter seeing what next year brings? our picks are gutted…poor qb tlaent anyways…no FAs want to play here,,.and the cap is awful until 2023

the only angle I see this mattering is if there is a HC prospect available this off-season we need to go get

otherwise who cares

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, CBird said:

Straight talk, painful, but keep Rhule for another year. Build the O line in the draft.  Next year is a write off, play Darnold, let Cam walk,.......#1 overall pick in 2023.....QB young out of Bama, and hire Bienemy or another offensive minded coach to turn this thing around

And Matt Rhule agrees to coach a  "write off year" setting things up for his successor...why, exactly?

[PNW_PantherMan]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And Matt Rhule agrees to coach a  "write off year" setting things up for his successor...why, exactly?

Wouldn't he be contractually obligated to coach?   Even if he stopped giving a poo?

[BrianS]

Here's the problem:  We've been conned into thinking that everything is a throw away until we have a franchise QB.  Now, I'm definitely in the camp that says you need a franchise QB to bring home a Lombardi.  But I don't think that precludes us from competing.

Many teams are competing with "lesser" QB's.  The Broncos are over .500 with TB5.  The Eagles and WTF's are just under .500 with Jalen Hurts and Taylor Heinecke.

Play for one of these "good not great" QB's while you build your team.  When the opportunity comes to get "THE GUY", you get him and push for a championship.  Honestly, I could stand a few years of 10-7 back to back while we seach for "the guy" in a responsible way.

[trueblade]

Rebuilding in the NFL is fundamentally different from college. In college, you have to get in your recruiting classes. That takes about three years. In the NFL, improving your roster is about the draft and free agency to improve your roster. Free agents and 1st rounders should contribute immediately. Hopefully some of your other draftees contribute by year 2 or year 3 at the latest. 

Another major difference between college and the NFL is what do schematically. In college, you can simply out-athlete your opponents. That is almost never the case in the NFL, so you have to out scheme them.

Take for an example the 2019 New England Patriots. That team had a broken offense, with an aging and less than stellar defense. After one down year (2020), they were aggressive with free agents and drafted well. Their schematics have always been strong. They are again at the top of the AFC and appeared poised for another run. It took one season of drafting and free agency. Not five years.

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, CarolinaLivin said:

What he did made sense. I fully understand that it could have been better at QB/OL. Those moves will forever be tied to his name.

Year 1 we were a rebuild team. He turned over a roster, we had a bridge QB. Made sense for 5 wins. Wanted more but couldn't complain with what we had.

Year 2 this team has a lot more talent. Very Questionable QB change. and Very Questionable pickups at OL. Understanding this was a rebuild team helped it make some sense out of the moves he made. But when we started moving in "win now" mode... everything was lost. Year 2 is what mkes me want to get rid of Rhule. Like I said Coaches make mistakes. Busts happen. Projects fail. But if can't improve from those mistakes... gotta move on. He is trying to adapt to the NFL in a very "desperate manner". And the problems he is facing aren't problems he inherited... they are problems he created... that's why we must move on.

Long way of agreeing with you while adding some. I may be generous in my feelings toward roster moves but im looking at all moves not just the OL/QB, not saying you weren't

We can agree to disagree. That’s what forums are about

I don’t see that the roster is that much improved in even defense outside of Gilmore who missed half the season that we don’t even play as we should.  Shaq  Burns. DJax. Carter   Etc all here before him 

as was cmc. Dj etc. 
 

if I owned this team, Rhule would be in the next bus back to Waco 

then again,  I’m a long time PSL holder and if this guy stays, that’s the end of them

[Mr. Scot]

24 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Wouldn't he be contractually obligated to coach?   Even if he stopped giving a poo?

Not really. And it's not like you can force somebody to do their best.

That'd be putting us in a position where he could cause a lot of damage on the way out.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

13 minutes ago, trueblade said:

It took one season of drafting and free agency. Not five years.

It took one season by people who are experienced NFL professionals.

Unfortunately, Panthers don't have the benefit of experienced NFL professionals.