Losing Out is the Way

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

if this team passes on yet another franchise QB with a top 10 pick I honestly hope they just fold the team

how can you continue to bungle that position so consistently?

Lotta people think there aren't any franchise QBs available in this year's draft.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

12 hours ago, hepcat said:

The Panthers are cursed. We are Sisyphus.

The Panthers are Sisyphus ... or syphilis?

[PghPanther]

9 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

The Panthers are Sisyphus ... or syphilis?

If they don't have a STD of some sort they will if they somehow end up with Watson at QB

[SCO96]

I've watched a lot of football in my life. I have NFL memories dating back to the 1970's. I have seem teams that were just plain bad wind up with high draft choices and use them on QBs. But, I didn't see them go out and lose on purpose. Most NFL franchises and player have too much pride for that. 

I can't recall a team that was clearly tanking at the end of a season to get a franchise QB; and then actually winning a title once they got him. I'd like for someone to give me an example. 

 

 

[Growl]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Lotta people think there aren't any franchise QBs available in this year's draft.

So what?

[PghPanther]

What gives you the idea that the Panthers are capable of having "another way" of finishing the season other than losing against the remaining opponents?

At this point Tampa could rest all their starters and the Panthers could still lose......... 

[45catfan]

This was the most winnable game left on our schedule and couldn't even handle business--at HOME.  So we have the Bucs (twice), Bills and Saints.  Is there one win in there?   Only if we bring our 'A' game and one of those other teams brings their 'C' game.  Other that that, this team shouldn't see another win this season. 

I hoping for that #5 draft slot and an OT.

[SCO96]

10 hours ago, Growl said:

Lotta people think there aren't any franchise QBs available in this year's draft.

 

10 hours ago, Growl said:

So what?

I think Mr. Scott is implying that there probably isn't a QB worth taking in 5-10 area of the draft. We all know we need a QB to have a chance at competing for titles. But the last thing you want to do is draft out of desperation and end up with a Cade Mcknown, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, Jake Locklear, JaMarcus Russell, EJ Manual type of player which would set the team even further back in terms of winning. First round quarterbacks are far from a sure thing. 

You also have to factor in the state of the team that's drafting him. Most bad teams get high draft choices for one reason...they're bad teams. If you put a 21-23 year old on a team with bad coaching and a poor offensive line you're just setting him up for failure. The line needs to be built first. Last year was the year to do it. We passed on 5-6 Tackles and 3 interior lineman, including the best center in the draft, before we took a WR @ 58. We could have picked one of those guys and still got Brady in the 3rd round. If Rhule was set on playing him at Guard, so be it, just start him there from Day 1 and 40% of the line is upgraded with 2 choices.

We didn't do it, and we have the same problem. If somehow we were able to get a couple top FA lineman to sign before the draft then I could see taking a QB in round one. But, I have to ask why would a top lineman want to play for this team considering the woeful state of the Panthers? We don't need castoffs from other teams so we're gonna have to do it thru the draft.

 

[45catfan]

7 hours ago, stbugs said:

I agree on the QBs, hence I was all in on 2020 tanking. I don’t know enough about the QBs yet, but my point still stands that passing over someone you think is a franchise QB just to build the OL is a terrible idea. It’s not hard to build an OL. We’ve purposely avoided it. Last 4 drafts, we took Little, who was universally hated in here by people who pay attention to pre-draft events, Daley in the 6th, BC in the 3rd and Brown in the 6th. That’s not the same as acting like building the OL is hard, that’s draft malpractice. Not taking Marshall and a long snapper could have meant having 4/5 of the OL done with 1 more to go assuming BC can be a starter.

If we get a mediocre QB top 7, that’s our fault but I’m not sure the top 7 OL are better than the 2020 tackles we avoided. If we don’t think any QBs are worth pick 5-7 then we should try to trade down and get a couple solid OL.

Therein lies the rub.  I don't think there's a franchise QB in this draft.  Will one of them turn into a franchise QB?  Possibly, but which of the three it will be is the problem.  Scratch Willis right off the bat.  Dude was a big fish in a little pond and when he made it to the big pond, he looked lost.  Howell is #3 in the class and has huge questions.  He's Trubisky 2.0, it just so happens they went to the same school.  You are down to Corral and Pickett.  I haven't done a ton of research on the draft yet (I usually wait until bowl season is winding down) but it seems initially, they have question marks as well and in a strong QB draft, they would be late 1st or even 2nd rounders.  They will go in the top 15 or maybe even the top 10 JUST because a QB needy team will take a flyer on them. 

Are we a QB needy team?  Absolutely.  The #1 rule of the draft, however,  is never, EVER, reach for need over value.

[Riverboat Ron]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:51 PM, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

We do this thread EVERY season. Half want to tank, half want to grasp for the sliver of a Playoffs chance, half don't care. Yes, three halves. That said, this team sucks so we don't need to "tank". We can lose just by suiting up. But trying for meaningless wins (remember WFT last season) just so Cam can hold his chin up and get a starting job somewhere (or here) next season? GTFO. This board is so hypocritical.

We usually end up tanking, landing a top 5 pick before the last 2 weeks, then winning pointless games to give us the 8th or 9th pick. This is how we’ve missed out on Justin Herbert and Penei Sewell. It’s like they can’t even tank correctly.

[Growl]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

 

I think Mr. Scott is implying that there probably isn't a QB worth taking in 5-10 area of the draft. We all know we need a QB to have a chance at competing for titles. But the last thing you want to do is draft out of desperation and end up with a Cade Mcknown, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, Jake Locklear, JaMarcus Russell, EJ Manual type of player which would set the team even further back in terms of winning. First round quarterbacks are far from a sure thing. 

You also have to factor in the state of the team that's drafting him. Most bad teams get high draft choices for one reason...they're bad teams. If you put a 21-23 year old on a team with bad coaching and a poor offensive line you're just setting him up for failure. The line needs to be built first. Last year was the year to do it. We passed on 5-6 Tackles and 3 interior lineman, including the best center in the draft, before we took a WR @ 58. We could have picked one of those guys and still got Brady in the 3rd round. If Rhule was set on playing him at Guard, so be it, just start him there from Day 1 and 40% of the line is upgraded with 2 choices.

We didn't do it, and we have the same problem. If somehow we were able to get a couple top FA lineman to sign before the draft then I could see taking a QB in round one. But, I have to ask why would a top lineman want to play for this team considering the woeful state of the Panthers? We don't need castoffs from other teams so we're gonna have to do it thru the draft.

 

I don’t care what Mr. Scott is implying.

there will be successful QBs taken in the 1st round of this draft, as there customarily is.

the role of the organization is to identify which guys that will be and acquire them at any cost.

[SCO96]

2 minutes ago, Growl said:

I don’t care what Mr. Scott is implying.

there will be successful QBs taken in the 1st round of this draft, as there customarily is.

the role of the organization is to identify which guys that will be and acquire them at any cost.

That's not always the case sir. There have been draft classes that have produced no successful starters in the 1st round. There have been drafts that haven't produced any solid starters at all.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-draft-best-qb-class-since-2000-worst-let-s-rank-em-all-0ap3000001108141

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/18/nfl-draft-worst-quarterback-classes

Take a look at the links above for the proof.

Young QB's need help if they're going to a bad team. Trevor Lawrence was the highest ranked prospect in years...in the category of John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. He threw 4 INT's yesterday and has struggled this year. Why? His team is terrible. No college in this year's draft will succeed in Carolina until the O-line is fixed.

[Growl]

3 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

That's not always the case sir. There have been draft classes that have produced no successful starters in the 1st round. There have been drafts that haven't produced any solid starters at all.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-draft-best-qb-class-since-2000-worst-let-s-rank-em-all-0ap3000001108141

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/18/nfl-draft-worst-quarterback-classes

Take a look at the links above for the proof.

Young QB's need help if they're going to a bad team. Trevor Lawrence was the highest ranked prospect in years...in the category of John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. He threw 4 INT's yesterday and has struggled this year. Why? His team is terrible. No college in this year's draft will succeed in Carolina until the O-line is fixed.

Just to be clear, the Jaguars should have passed on Trevor Lawrence until got some HOG MOLLIES?

lol okay pal.

i don’t know where this delusion comes from that teams have to “wait to take the QB” until “the line is ready” but it’s not an actual thing in the NFL. No team abides by this thing you’ve invented.

teams that need franchise QBs don’t pass on franchise QBs when one is available to them. That’s how you get garbage seasons like this one with everyone on the cusp of getting fired because they bypassed a couple “risky” QB prospects in favor of the “safest player available.”

also, I don’t care about your professional analysis of Kenny Pickett or sam Howell or anyone lol.

[45catfan]

Lol, Lawrence = Pickett/Corral!