this place is so much more hostile about ruhle than it was for rivera in 2013

[Basbear]

23 minutes ago, frankw said:

We have what three draft picks next year? For all the hand wringing about inheriting such a bad situation where is it for making it that much worse by trading away draft capital for awful players and likely prolonging this rebuild?

Still have a 1st.

2nd just think of using it on current college QB......about the same issue with Sam and most of this years QB class. Its a weak class and so is Sam.

3rd- Henderson, I do that right now as well. 2020 9th overall pick for a pick in the 70s, 100% right move for a very young elite level CB

Got extra 5th in the Hendo trade, bonus.

6th for a DE/STer Johnson that has the impact of a late 6th rounder, minor gamble and lost right now. Honestly Dan Morgan needs to answer for this one.

Got a extra 6th for a 7th in the perryman deal. While perryman is killing it, he was a bad team fit and didnt get the vaccine til later with the raiders. 

Got a 7th for Greg"worthless" little. Thats a plus

Still have their 4th, 5th, 6th

Finesser showed his card at trading and piling up picks, could add 2s, 3s and _____ with trading back in the first. 

So in a way they got 3 draft picks one year early, now the haul like team is struggling, but its not over. They can improve. Each trade is impossible to have a 100% right rate, Im stilll holding hope that Hendo becomes a solid starter. FYI he was one of the better panthers on the field vs the phins, seemed to be one of the few that cared. 

Not the out-come on some of the pick trading. I understand why Little, Hendo, Johnson, and perryman(i disagree with it) were traded or traded for. 

Darnold was a mistake right now, very little to defend this. I still hold a tiny bit of hope since they are stuck with him, no choice. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Basbear

[Panthercougar68]

I think it’s a combo of a different time/era with the Internet in general and the fact this crappy span has been going on for 4 years.

Not gonna lie it feels like Rhule has been here for the last 4 years but we forget Ron was 2 of those years so it’s not really fair to Rhule on that aspect.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Panthercougar68

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Still have a 1st.

2nd just think of using it on current college QB......about the same issue with Sam and most of this years QB class. Its a weak class and so is Sam.

3rd- Henderson, I do that right now as well. 2020 9th overall pick for a pick in the 70s, 100% right move for a very young elite level CB

Got extra 5th in the Hendo trade, bonus.

6th for a DE/STer Johnson that has the impact of a late 6th rounder, minor gamble and lost right now. Honestly Dan Morgan needs to answer for this one.

Got a extra 6th for a 7th in the perryman deal. While perryman is killing it, he was a bad team fit and didnt get the vaccine til later with the raiders. 

Got a 7th for Greg"worthless" little. Thats a plus

Still have their 4th, 5th, 6th

Finesser showed his card at trading and piling up picks, could add 2s, 3s and _____ with trading back in the first. 

So in a way they got 3 draft picks one year early, now the haul like team is struggling, but its not over. They can improve. Each trade is impossible to have a 100% right rate, Im stilll holding hope that Hendo becomes a solid starter. FYI he was one of the better panthers on the field vs the phins, seemed to be one of the few that cared. 

Not the out-come on some of the pick trading. I understand why Little, Hendo, Johnson, and perryman(i disagree with it) were traded or traded for. 

Darnold was a mistake right now, very little to defend this. I still hold s tiny bit of hope since they are stuck with him, no choice. 

That's a lot of justication for some very dicey trading. Don't forget we didn’t just give up three picks for Sam we guaranteed him 19 million dollars starter or not. We are a bad team with limited resources and a very ugly cap situation heading into next season with the highest paid rb in the league who can't stay healthy and the worst oline we have had in many years by far. Mgmt has worsened our predicament.

Edited December 7, 2021 by frankw

[Basbear]

27 minutes ago, frankw said:

We have what three draft picks next year? For all the hand wringing about inheriting such a bad situation where is it for making it that much worse by trading away draft capital for awful players and likely prolonging this rebuild?

I answered this in post above, its more than you think

[Tr3ach]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

That team started out 1-3 and there was fuging blood in the water. 

The Panthers had just poo the fuging bed in Arizona coming out of a bye. They beat the hell out of the Cardinals but lost due to a hideous offensive gameplan. 

This was after starting 1-6 the season before, including one of the most gut wrenching regular season losses in team history that involved a 4th and short and a certain undersized safety. 

There were constant threads about firing rivera. 

In retrospect I don't think anyone can say that Rivera didn't come into a better situation. I mean yes he drafted Cam but that was a no brainer, and also a consolation pick. The team was also better when he inherited it, especially what ruhle inherited. 

 

And yet thinks are far more hostile now than they were then. 

So why is that? Obviously this was a decade ago, the internet as a whole had not yet grown as caustic. 

Why is Ruhle different?

A lot of them started hating him the moment the team moved on from Cam (even though it was for the best) and nothing he has done so far has changed his mind and I doubt much can.

[saX man]

Times have changed. But the lack of patience is also relative. There is no breakaway team anymore (last was the Chiefs) and we shouldn’t be tripping over our dicks like this.  Potential was there if we navigated the QB and coaching search correctly. We had good pieces we’ll now be breaking up. 
 

And it gets more annoying when you have a talker like Rhule. Just annoying babbling porridge seeping from the Dutch ovens of BOFA.

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

A lot of them started hating him the moment the team moved on from Cam (even though it was for the best) and nothing he has done so far has changed his mind and I doubt much can.

You're still banging this drum haha. Most had finally begun to move on from Cam and accept until Rhule himself reached desperation mode and brought him back into a worse mess than when he left. Get a grip.

[BIGH2001]

45 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I do not get how 2021 looks like his first year and 2020 they were more competitive with much less talent. NFL is weird and all, still you are aware how bad the team was in early 2020 off-season?? Maybe the worst roster in the league, in just 1.75 years into a rebuild they are better at nearly every spot minus OL&QB. Winning 5 games feels like it gave the fans/tepper false hope, the team was not a 5 win team. Add in that 3-0 start, superbowl plans were getting made it felt like.... 

Who knows what type of pressure Tepper is putting on Rhule, Im old enough to member this team needing a near compete over-haul. That does NOT happen in 1.75 years, not even the master of masters Bill Paracells in all his 4 year glory was able to take team with the worse roster and turn them into winners faster. 

Microwave fans are killing me..... Rhule has failed finding a QB, no defending that. This team, no matter what needs much more than just a QB.

Team also when form the oldest to youngest in just a little over one 1 year. 

Plus this is getting overlooked, but you and others need to see they've had what 80 million+ in dead cap??? It must be a two year record, a small part is by Rhules hands.

I mean are we only focused on the negative and not seen how Rhule gained in positives while also screwing up(like any other coach)??

I can not believe most the high IQ panthers posters are going crazy with this team. Fiz at least sees the faults in the method of thinking for Ron vs Rhule.

We lost by 3 scores to the Giants and Dolphins. Our offense might be the worst it has ever been.  The only reason we have 5 wins is because 3 of them came against bottom 5 teams in the league. The other two came against teams with decimated rosters due to injuries/Covid. 

Where is the progress?

[Ricky Spanish]

Alright so I'll give my perspective. 

At this point year two of the Rivera Rebuild we were 3-9, compared to 5-7 that we are at this point this year. 

These records do not detail the whole story. 

Of the 9 losses with Rivera, 7 were one score losses, showing that the team was actually competitive. Of our 7 losses this year, 3* were one score losses with the other 4 being complete blowouts. 

Under Rivera we also drafted two consecutive rookies of the year with Newton and Kuechly so we were set at the QB position for the foreseeable future and that was hype. As the team wasn't winning, we also realized that Rivera didn't have complete roster control and that was Hurney's responsibility. We got rid of him in the middle of the season and that gave the fans some hope that now that Hurney was gone he couldn't tank the team anymore with horrible contracts and terrible day two drafting.

Rhule has full control of the roster and has seemed to make the roster worse each year he has been here. 

Rhule's first year he used double speak and got rid of our franchise QB his first offseason here pissing a lot of fans off. Then he brought in a crappy QB in Teddy bridgewater to replace Cam and Teddy was underwhelming. Then he traded for the WORST starting QB in the NFL from the jets giving up 3 picks in the process. 

So going into year three with each coach, we are on the upswing with Rivera and the downswing with Rhule. The guy that put the underwhelming roster of 2012 together has gotten the boot, and the guy who put together the underwhelming roster of 2021 is still under contract and looking like he's going to meddle even more. With Rivera we have two picks in the first 3 rounds, with Rhule we have one pick in the first three rounds (top 100 players in the draft). We have one QB under contract and he is historically one of the worst QBs in the NFL. The Offensive line, while no gem under Rivera, is even worse under Rhule who valued versatility over actually being good at any one position. 

On top of it all, the team looks like they just don't give a poo under Rhule whereas the team looked like they actually cared about playing for Rivera. 

Most of us were willing to give Rivera one more shot with a new GM and the hope that he would stop being so damn conservative. Rhule has used up every ounce of grace by tanking the offense, hiring guys who aren't NFL caliber coaches across the board, and getting outcoached the second half of the season week in and week out. 

It was different. It is different. It looks pretty obvious that Rhule is out of his element. Could he turn it around in year 3 like Rivera? Maybe. All trends are pointing down though, and the Fans are sick of watching this team flounder around in mediocrity due to a college coach being out of his element. 

[Basbear]

15 minutes ago, Verge said:

You make some valid points, especially the cap one, though I feel like you can credit that just to Hurney not being there. Part of the reason for the pessimism is what we have spent our resources on, it doesn't feel far enough from Hurney where they mess up. Trading multiple picks for Sam, picking up his 5th, extending Robby, all in the name of putting yet another budget patchwork offensive line is obnoxiously familiar and bad. 

I look at what Rhule has added to the roster and it's not much for me to get excited about, not yet anyway with the Horn injury. Plus the positives he did bring in (Reddick mainly) we likely won't be able to retain because of other absolutely awful decisions. 

You could back it up with coaching or team enthusiasm but I see neither of those things. He straight up does not excel in the in game coaching department, and this team almost always feels flat for no reason. The most surge we saw during the season was the week Cam signed, that energy went away as fast as it came in once we got clearly outcoached two games in a row.

Rhule not only has failed to find a QB, he has failed to find a tackle, he has failed to find a guard, failed to find a center, failed to find an offensive weapon outside of CMC who was already here, and has failed to find anything but a gamesaving DC in Phil Snow. 

I guess it is just hard to feel fired up or look at it with any kind of optimism when the product you see on the field is as flat as any team we have seen in the Rivera era. 

You are level headed in this post. I do see the issues with coaching and team morale, I am not happy with Darnold, OL, constant meaningless lies, etc. I just know were this team came form and its not a perfect ride, why is that now the only thought? If batting 1.000 is the game, I mean what are we even thinking?? Team will be getting rid of every single GM and Coach after a couple games. Non-sense.....

Horn, I can add to that. Look he was injured and the team was 3-0, or 3-1. Henderson an 2020 top ten pick was available for a 2022 third AND they get back a 5th.......why is this talked about in a negative tone??? They could fill the shoes of the recent injured CB AND jags were paying most of the salary. They also paid his signing bonus and his contract/cap number is peanuts for 2022&2023. (plus theres the 5th year if he proves it...)Why would any one disagree with this??? Team according to reports loved him in the draft process. DB coach knows hendo cause he tried to recruit him and they remained friends since.

Rhule has completely shat himself on QB decisions. OL is a mess as well, Ive been on his case about those for the start with Cam and draft/free agency. I do not defend wrong and he was been wrong here, plus it has hurt. If the soul focus is negatives, no problem finding them..........

Keep pounding

[frankw]

That Giants loss was when the wheels finally came off and aside from that win in Arizona our HC and his staff have been outcoached on the regular. It doesn't get much lower than being outclassed by Joe Judge and a now unemployed Jason Garrett. But somehow Rhule found a way. That is the 2021 Panthers.

[Paa Langfart]

2 hours ago, electro's horse said:

Why is Ruhle different?

He is not likeable and looks like joeshit-the ragman.

[Basbear]

9 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

We lost by 3 scores to the Giants and Dolphins. Our offense might be the worst it has ever been.  The only reason we have 5 wins is because 3 of them came against bottom 5 teams in the league. The other two came against teams with decimated rosters due to injuries/Covid. 

Where is the progress?

They are struggling for sure. Playoffs are *STILL in play. I believe the 5 wins form 2020 gave fans a false hope. This team was not a 5 win team and then the 3-0 start happened. Most penalties in the NFL as well.

They won 5 in 2020 and won 5 by week 10 so far thats progress, right? Agree about the wins coming against weak teams. So were does beating the best team record wise do, cause they did beat the cards and they do have the NFLs best record. Yea they didnt have Dhop or Murray, still a weak team like carolina should have lost that game...... 

I swear I feel everyone how only sees the negatives, what happened? 

[ForJimmy]

We were trending up with Rivera/Cam/Luke and we are stuck in the middle of no where with Sam/No OL/Rhule. Had Rhule drafted Fields or Mac this past year and we have a same record with the rookie flashing some potential, that changes the whole perspective for me as a fan. Not only do we have a bad QB in Sam, we are missing precious draft capital and spending $18.5 million on him next year. It’s a very tough pill to swallow…