Sam's contract and our options

[kungfoodude]

45 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Yes.  'Cause I have.

And all that time, I thought it was all Adam Gase.

And for the most part, it was but Adam Gase's "stink" actually served to mask Sam's "stink" from showing itself. 

That's why he apparently fooled myself, others, and RHULE into giving him another shot. 

 

Darnold is a very odd case because more people than normal(even in the media and football knowledgeable talking heads) seemed fooled by him. 

I really don't get why that happened because it SEEMED so obvious. But the narrative became that it was Gase and that was what everyone just seemed to go with. 

It was very strange.  

[musicman]

I see it as the Panthers took a chance and at least they are trying to get better after Watson and Stafford didn't pan out. I don't think Mac Jones would be as good in our system and along with Fields they have a long way to go before they prove to be franchise QBs. 

We had almost no choice to extend him as if he played really good, or at least looked like he was headed that way, it would have costed even more. At least the Panthers show they are not going to be cheap in trying to get good players. Some work out and some don't, plain and simple. Reddick and Luvu yes, Erving now. 

I see Darnold on the team next year, even if it's a back up role with Cam, a new draft pick or another signing. 

[unicar15]

Not sure if this has been mentioned. But I think this is what will happen to a degree with Darnold if the staff doesn’t want to bring him back:

 

”The Texans are trading quarterback Brock Osweilerto the Browns, a move that will take Osweiler's $16 million guaranteed salary off of Houston's books.

Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.” 

 

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, musicman said:

I see it as the Panthers took a chance and at least they are trying to get better after Watson and Stafford didn't pan out. I don't think Mac Jones would be as good in our system and along with Fields they have a long way to go before they prove to be franchise QBs. 

We had almost no choice to extend him as if he played really good, or at least looked like he was headed that way, it would have costed even more. At least the Panthers show they are not going to be cheap in trying to get good players. Some work out and some don't, plain and simple. Reddick and Luvu yes, Erving now. 

I see Darnold on the team next year, even if it's a back up role with Cam, a new draft pick or another signing. 

Under what scenario would exercising the option save money at all? 

[Waldo]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Darnold is a very odd case because more people than normal(even in the media and football knowledgeable talking heads) seemed fooled by him. 

I really don't get why that happened because it SEEMED so obvious. But the narrative became that it was Gase and that was what everyone just seemed to go with. 

It was very strange.  

Tannahil was revitalized so it was the example Sam was expected to follow. It was a hopeful comparison that was easy to build up but it completely discounted Sam's mental issues with processing the field. That is something that could be improved in a QB but in this case there is no evidence Sam was ever capable of doing so.

Lots of good draft people couldn't see Little was a walking disaster yet some of us saw it well before the draft. I don't know what that is but it exist. Some kind of evaluation fallacy. Maybe if you over examine a bad prospect they start to look better or hopeful? I don't know.

 

[BrianS]

25 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Under what scenario would exercising the option save money at all? 

Here are two:

1.  Sam balls out and shows everyone it was Gase + Jets at fault.  If we're sitting here today at 8-2 with Sam balling 18 million next year looks really good.

2.  Sam shows steady improvement toward becoming the guy.  With a young QB showing steady improvement toward becoming a franchise QB, 18 million looks cheap.

Yes, 18 million is a lot of money.  Kirk Cousins is hitting the Vikings for 31 million.  That's an immense amount of money for a good not great QB.  Dak will hit next year for 34 million and would be the barometer for successful young QB contracts.

When you view 18 million through the lens of failure, yes, it looks like a lot.  When you view it through the lens of success, it looks a lot more reasonable.  At the time the decision was made, the team didn't have the benefit of the last nine games to look at.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, BrianS said:

Here are two:

1.  Sam balls out and shows everyone it was Gase + Jets at fault.  If we're sitting here today at 8-2 with Sam balling 18 million next year looks really good.

2.  Sam shows steady improvement toward becoming the guy.  With a young QB showing steady improvement toward becoming a franchise QB, 18 million looks cheap.

Yes, 18 million is a lot of money.  Kirk Cousins is hitting the Vikings for 31 million.  That's an immense amount of money for a good not great QB.  Dak will hit next year for 34 million and would be the barometer for successful young QB contracts.

When you view 18 million through the lens of failure, yes, it looks like a lot.  When you view it through the lens of success, it looks a lot more reasonable.  At the time the decision was made, the team didn't have the benefit of the last nine games to look at.

1. He balls out, then he would be signed long term anyhow. Which means he’s still getting all that money and more. And his first year cap hit would be less than 19M anyhow. So In this best case scenario, what money is saved? 

2. What improvement are they going to just let him play and start at the 19M tag in 2022? They wouldn’t let him go into a “contract” year before he ever played as shown by this very option. How many teams do you think would go after Darnold with just some steady improvement? Either sign him or move on. But there isn’t 19M clouding the decision. I told everyone on here this was as “incompetent” a front office decision as I have ever seen and not only has it already been proven true, it never made sense from the start. 

[BrianS]

4 minutes ago, Toomers said:

1. He balls out, then he would be signed long term anyhow. Which means he’s still getting all that money and more. And his first year cap hit would be less than 19M anyhow. So In this best case scenario, what money is saved? 

2. What improvement are they going to just let him play and start at the 19M tag in 2022? They wouldn’t let him go into a “contract” year before he ever played as shown by this very option. How many teams do you think would go after Darnold with just some steady improvement? Either sign him or move on. But there isn’t 19M clouding the decision. I told everyone on here this was as “incompetent” a front office decision as I have ever seen and not only has it already been proven true, it never made sense from the start. 

See, lens of negativity?

In your "best case" of Sam balling out they get an extra year to work it out at a lower rate.  Cap flexibility to go all in on a Super Bowl even.  More options open.

In the other, we will never know what that might have looked like.  Maybe it went first half of the season Sam goes 3-6, has maybe 14 TD's and 13 INT's.  Second half of the season Sam goes 6-2, 18 TD's and 5 INT's.  In that scenario I'd want to see Sam kick off the next year as he finished this one, and work out that contract then.

Now, if you've got a time machine, I'm sure Rhule and company would love to have a chat.  Otherwise, we are where we are.  Stuck with it.  You can scream about how "right" you were all day long, and it won't change the situation.

[Snake]

16 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Nobody is going to trade for him.  We are going to have to eat his salary come hell or high water

In fit we trust. 

[Toomers]

19 minutes ago, BrianS said:

See, lens of negativity?

In your "best case" of Sam balling out they get an extra year to work it out at a lower rate.  Cap flexibility to go all in on a Super Bowl even.  More options open.

In the other, we will never know what that might have looked like.  Maybe it went first half of the season Sam goes 3-6, has maybe 14 TD's and 13 INT's.  Second half of the season Sam goes 6-2, 18 TD's and 5 INT's.  In that scenario I'd want to see Sam kick off the next year as he finished this one, and work out that contract then.

Now, if you've got a time machine, I'm sure Rhule and company would love to have a chat.  Otherwise, we are where we are.  Stuck with it.  You can scream about how "right" you were all day long, and it won't change the situation.

 Lens of reality and not “hoping” the front office isn’t as incompetent as they have shown. 
 

   And to create room, they would sign him and lower that 19M to 10M. They just gave away 55M for two QBs who are done with the team, already, and you think that they won’t pay a QB who “balled out” ASAP? 
 

  It really doesn’t matter what Sam did? There is no scenario where it saved money, cap space or flexibility. They bet 19M that they were right. With no upside. Just the loss that is already apparent. 
 

Everything I posted in this thread, was posted on here many times before and after they exercised the option. Saying all the same things. But I was being “negative” which around here just means you’re right. 

[glenwo2]

34 minutes ago, Snake said:

In fit we trust. 

If Fit finds a sucker-of-a-team to take on Sam's contract, we might as well build a statue of him right now.

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, unicar15 said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned. But I think this is what will happen to a degree with Darnold if the staff doesn’t want to bring him back:

 

”The Texans are trading quarterback Brock Osweilerto the Browns, a move that will take Osweiler's $16 million guaranteed salary off of Houston's books.

Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.” 

 

Just to keep it simple lets cross out the sixth and the fourth.

So basically the Texans gave the Browns a 2nd round pick to take $10m in cap.  Sam is at $18m+.

Like I said in my first post, i don't see a team doing it for a 3rd.  I don't see us doing it for a 1st.  That leaves a 2nd, which we don't' have and even if we did I don't know how many teams would take on that big of a hit for a 2nd.

 

[BurnNChinn]

Sorry Darnold Robby is saying ur not a leader. Damn idk but Darnold gives me the Brock Osweiler vibes. I just can’t believe we fell for that guy!

[Jackie Lee]

2 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Just to keep it simple lets cross out the sixth and the fourth.

So basically the Texans gave the Browns a 2nd round pick to take $10m in cap.  Sam is at $18m+.

Like I said in my first post, i don't see a team doing it for a 3rd.  I don't see us doing it for a 1st.  That leaves a 2nd, which we don't' have and even if we did I don't know how many teams would take on that big of a hit for a 2nd.

 

This draft isn't even looking that appealing after maybe the top 10-15 picks. Maybe we could trade a 2023 2nd to the Dolphins or Chargers who each have almost $80m in cap space, Darnold might be a better backup than Chase Daniel?