Is Silver Platter Sam a viable backup QB for Panthers over the long term?

[AU-panther]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That is a lot of words that you are shoving in my mouth. You know we have had this exact discussion at least twice in the past few days, right?

Did I not lay out exactly what I would do, were it my choice? And that was nothing at all like you are describing.

As I have said, repeatedly, you don't reach on a guy. You believe in the prospect and go get him. 

And, yes, I was a Slater guy.

but you keep talking about the free agents, I'm actually curious who might be available?  Also if you are going to pass on this QB class shouldn't you have an idea of what is coming up in two years?  I'm sure the teams do.

 

[Panther'sBigD]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

I suspect Tepper will give Rhule a third season to prove himself, but his decisions, when it comes to OC, O line and QBs these last two seasons brings Matt's judgement into serious question.  

Tepper will most likely give him at least five years depending on what moves they make this offseason. Rhule made a gamble that didn’t pay off. It was a move that if it worked would have put the franchise rebuild years ahead of time. At worst this puts us back within the normal timeline. The two o linemen turned out to be unsalvageable, but it was worth a shot.  It’s not like he imploded the team, despite whats being posted all over this board. Im just guessing of course. Anyone on this board pretending/presuming to know/understand the mind of Tepper is delusional, myself included.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Panther'sBigD said:

Tepper will most likely give him at least five years depending on what moves they make this offseason. Rhule made a gamble that didn’t pay off. It was a move that if it worked would have put the franchise rebuild years ahead of time. At worst this puts us back within the normal timeline. The two o linemen turned out to be unsalvageable, but it was worth a shot.  It’s not like he imploded the team, despite whats being posted all over this board. Im just guessing of course. Anyone on this board pretending/presuming to know/understand the mind of Tepper is delusional, myself included.

It doesn’t take 5 years in today’s NFL to be a playoff team.  

3 of our 4 HCs were in the playoffs in 3.  The other guy fired.   That should be the bar. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

but you keep talking about the free agents, I'm actually curious who might be available?  Also if you are going to pass on this QB class shouldn't you have an idea of what is coming up in two years?  I'm sure the teams do.

 

We have gone over that already, as well. If you want, cruise over to overthecap.com and take a look. 

As I also have discussed with you, the 2023 free agent class could be big. That list is quite deep. Obviously extensions can and probably will happen to whittle it down but it is far better than the 2022 FA QB class, on paper.

[AU-panther]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We have gone over that already, as well. If you want, cruise over to overthecap.com and take a look. 

As I also have discussed with you, the 2023 free agent class could be big. That list is quite deep. Obviously extensions can and probably will happen to whittle it down but it is far better than the 2022 FA QB class, on paper.

2021 NFL Free Agents and Free Agency (overthecap.com)

Murry? Lamar? I'm guessing they resign where they are.  Brady will be 108. Stafford already turned us down once.

Jones if Giants don't resign him?  but if they don't resign him that means he is probably bad.  

Cousins?  Jimmy G?  Carr?  Mayfield?  How many of those would we really want?  How many of those 4 make it to FA.  

I could see Jimmy G because they drafted Lance, and Cousins since he is old.  Are we really pinning our hopes on them?

Nick Foles will probably be available, and Will Grier, and Drew Lock.

 

 

[Panther'sBigD]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

It doesn’t take 5 years in today’s NFL to be a playoff team.  

3 of our 4 HCs were in the playoffs in 3.  The other guy fired.   That should be the bar. 

LOL, that’s a shitty bar. None of the three of those coaches could put back to back winning seasons together. 

[Fox007]

22 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Derek Anderson had been a Pro Bowl QB when we got him.

Sam Darnold was a three time winner of "Worst NFL QB." 

So, how is that even a remotely good comparison? 

I was going to post that DA was the best backup we ever had. Just need someone similar to him as the backup but first we need a starter lol. Lets go ahead and take care of starter first before worrying about which trash can is the backup.

Right now we have 3 third string QBs as the starter/backup/3rd

[kungfoodude]

10 hours ago, AU-panther said:

2021 NFL Free Agents and Free Agency (overthecap.com)

Murry? Lamar? I'm guessing they resign where they are.  Brady will be 108. Stafford already turned us down once.

Jones if Giants don't resign him?  but if they don't resign him that means he is probably bad.  

Cousins?  Jimmy G?  Carr?  Mayfield?  How many of those would we really want?  How many of those 4 make it to FA.  

I could see Jimmy G because they drafted Lance, and Cousins since he is old.  Are we really pinning our hopes on them?

Nick Foles will probably be available, and Will Grier, and Drew Lock.

It isn't about pinning hopes on any "bridge" QB. The truth is, we made a massive mistake letting Teddy go. He was the QB we needed to be acceptably mediocre while our defense won games. He also deserves a big apology from myself and most Panther fans because a lot of the things he has said about our coaching staff(which were not as critical as we all interpreted them) appear to be pretty fuging accurate in hindsight.

I would not have expected to make the "wish we had Teddy back" plea at all. I was one of the lead members of the "fug Teddy, get him gone" squad. However, we somehow managed to downgrade many levels with Sam Darnold.

So, that being the case, I am on the average journeyman QB bandwagon for a few reasons. 

First, we simply must steady this ship. If my choices are winning with a ceiling and runaway losing, I am gonna choose the former.

Second, we have a good enough defense to win games. We literally need a good enough offense for them to not LOSE games like the current one is. To that point, if you transplant the 2020 offense into this 2021 defense, we might be a 6-8 win team 9 games into the season. 

Thirdly, we cannot simply just panic draft QB's in the first round over and over. The biggest reason is that if we keep failing the way we are failing, all these promising young players are going to start opting to go elsewhere. You think DJ Moore wants to continue to have a revolving door at QB during his prime years(7 different QB's in his rookie contract)? You think guys like Chinn and Burns are going to want to play their hearts out every week just to watch inept coaching and bad offensive play squander it? You think elite veterans like Stephon Gilmore are going to want to stick around losing franchises?

So, in closing, I want to see a steady journeyman here to right this ship, give us time to go out and find The Guy, and possibly have enough success to retain core players and attract quality free agents. Because, the alternative of continuing to gamble wildly at QB and shuffle the deck every year....that is going to lead to being....the Cleveland Browns from 1999-2017. I can't beat that dead horse enough. We are literally tracking towards that level of mismanagement. All that shuffling didn't lead to franchise QB's at every turn. It led to almost 20 years of suffering.

As an organization, I am very concerned we are teetering on that ledge. I was dead set against a "full rebuild" after the 2019 season because I said that most organizations that undertake such a venture take years and years to ever see success again. There just isn't a great precedent for that in the history of the NFL, ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era. Successful franchises constantly retool and tweak to maintain a level of winning that is acceptable. They don't put charges around the foundation and raze it to the ground in an attempt to build from nothing. It is a massive gamble to do something like that and it has oddly gone much better than expected but this new foundation we are building hasn't set yet. We fug it up and it will come crumbling down, yet again.

 

[Icege]

All of it sucks rn

Edited November 10, 2021 by Icege

[SCO96]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

It isn't about pinning hopes on any "bridge" QB. The truth is, we made a massive mistake letting Teddy go. He was the QB we needed to be acceptably mediocre while our defense won games. He also deserves a big apology from myself and most Panther fans because a lot of the things he has said about our coaching staff(which were not as critical as we all interpreted them) appear to be pretty fuging accurate in hindsight.

I would not have expected to make the "wish we had Teddy back" plea at all. I was one of the lead members of the "fug Teddy, get him gone" squad. However, we somehow managed to downgrade many levels with Sam Darnold.

So, that being the case, I am on the average journeyman QB bandwagon for a few reasons. 

First, we simply must steady this ship. If my choices are winning with a ceiling and runaway losing, I am gonna choose the former.

Second, we have a good enough defense to win games. We literally need a good enough offense for them to not LOSE games like the current one is. To that point, if you transplant the 2020 offense into this 2021 defense, we might be a 6-8 win team 9 games into the season. 

Thirdly, we cannot simply just panic draft QB's in the first round over and over. The biggest reason is that if we keep failing the way we are failing, all these promising young players are going to start opting to go elsewhere. You think DJ Moore wants to continue to have a revolving door at QB during his prime years(7 different QB's in his rookie contract)? You think guys like Chinn and Burns are going to want to play their hearts out every week just to watch inept coaching and bad offensive play squander it? You think elite veterans like Stephon Gilmore are going to want to stick around losing franchises?

So, in closing, I want to see a steady journeyman here to right this ship, give us time to go out and find The Guy, and possibly have enough success to retain core players and attract quality free agents. Because, the alternative of continuing to gamble wildly at QB and shuffle the deck every year....that is going to lead to being....the Cleveland Browns from 1999-2017. I can't beat that dead horse enough. We are literally tracking towards that level of mismanagement. All that shuffling didn't lead to franchise QB's at every turn. It led to almost 20 years of suffering.

As an organization, I am very concerned we are teetering on that ledge. I was dead set against a "full rebuild" after the 2019 season because I said that most organizations that undertake such a venture take years and years to ever see success again. There just isn't a great precedent for that in the history of the NFL, ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era. Successful franchises constantly retool and tweak to maintain a level of winning that is acceptable. They don't put charges around the foundation and raze it to the ground in an attempt to build from nothing. It is a massive gamble to do something like that and it has oddly gone much better than expected but this new foundation we are building hasn't set yet. We fug it up and it will come crumbling down, yet again.

 

Teddy was signed for 3 seasons I believe. That contract was perfect in length because it would give you time to see if Teddy was the guy, or draft a successor if he wasn't.

Imagine if we had kept Teddy this season and not traded down in the draft. We would have had our choice of 6 left tackles and/or 3 interior lineman, including Creed Humphrey (the best center in the draft). It's very possible we could have easily walked away with 2 starters on the O-line  from the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 

Having another year in the system and a "healthier" CMC would have helped Teddy's performance. By year 3 I think we could have been a legitimate playoff threat with solid depth on both sides of the ball. 

[Catsfan69]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It isn't about pinning hopes on any "bridge" QB. The truth is, we made a massive mistake letting Teddy go. He was the QB we needed to be acceptably mediocre while our defense won games. He also deserves a big apology from myself and most Panther fans because a lot of the things he has said about our coaching staff(which were not as critical as we all interpreted them) appear to be pretty fuging accurate in hindsight.

I would not have expected to make the "wish we had Teddy back" plea at all. I was one of the lead members of the "fug Teddy, get him gone" squad. However, we somehow managed to downgrade many levels with Sam Darnold.

So, that being the case, I am on the average journeyman QB bandwagon for a few reasons. 

First, we simply must steady this ship. If my choices are winning with a ceiling and runaway losing, I am gonna choose the former.

Second, we have a good enough defense to win games. We literally need a good enough offense for them to not LOSE games like the current one is. To that point, if you transplant the 2020 offense into this 2021 defense, we might be a 6-8 win team 9 games into the season. 

Thirdly, we cannot simply just panic draft QB's in the first round over and over. The biggest reason is that if we keep failing the way we are failing, all these promising young players are going to start opting to go elsewhere. You think DJ Moore wants to continue to have a revolving door at QB during his prime years(7 different QB's in his rookie contract)? You think guys like Chinn and Burns are going to want to play their hearts out every week just to watch inept coaching and bad offensive play squander it? You think elite veterans like Stephon Gilmore are going to want to stick around losing franchises?

So, in closing, I want to see a steady journeyman here to right this ship, give us time to go out and find The Guy, and possibly have enough success to retain core players and attract quality free agents. Because, the alternative of continuing to gamble wildly at QB and shuffle the deck every year....that is going to lead to being....the Cleveland Browns from 1999-2017. I can't beat that dead horse enough. We are literally tracking towards that level of mismanagement. All that shuffling didn't lead to franchise QB's at every turn. It led to almost 20 years of suffering.

As an organization, I am very concerned we are teetering on that ledge. I was dead set against a "full rebuild" after the 2019 season because I said that most organizations that undertake such a venture take years and years to ever see success again. There just isn't a great precedent for that in the history of the NFL, ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era. Successful franchises constantly retool and tweak to maintain a level of winning that is acceptable. They don't put charges around the foundation and raze it to the ground in an attempt to build from nothing. It is a massive gamble to do something like that and it has oddly gone much better than expected but this new foundation we are building hasn't set yet. We fug it up and it will come crumbling down, yet 

If we are starting over at QB get someone at least  Steve Berlin level. 

Then draft one.

But Sam's going to be the Starter next year don't you think?

If they draft a guy he sits behind Sam.

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

If we are starting over at QB get someone at least  Steve Berlin level. 

Then draft one.

But Sam's going to be the Starter next year don't you think?

If they draft a guy he sits behind Sam.

why would any NFL team go into week 1 next year with Sam Darnold as your starter?  

 

 

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It isn't about pinning hopes on any "bridge" QB. The truth is, we made a massive mistake letting Teddy go. He was the QB we needed to be acceptably mediocre while our defense won games. He also deserves a big apology from myself and most Panther fans because a lot of the things he has said about our coaching staff(which were not as critical as we all interpreted them) appear to be pretty fuging accurate in hindsight.

I would not have expected to make the "wish we had Teddy back" plea at all. I was one of the lead members of the "fug Teddy, get him gone" squad. However, we somehow managed to downgrade many levels with Sam Darnold.

So, that being the case, I am on the average journeyman QB bandwagon for a few reasons. 

First, we simply must steady this ship. If my choices are winning with a ceiling and runaway losing, I am gonna choose the former.

Second, we have a good enough defense to win games. We literally need a good enough offense for them to not LOSE games like the current one is. To that point, if you transplant the 2020 offense into this 2021 defense, we might be a 6-8 win team 9 games into the season. 

Thirdly, we cannot simply just panic draft QB's in the first round over and over. The biggest reason is that if we keep failing the way we are failing, all these promising young players are going to start opting to go elsewhere. You think DJ Moore wants to continue to have a revolving door at QB during his prime years(7 different QB's in his rookie contract)? You think guys like Chinn and Burns are going to want to play their hearts out every week just to watch inept coaching and bad offensive play squander it? You think elite veterans like Stephon Gilmore are going to want to stick around losing franchises?

So, in closing, I want to see a steady journeyman here to right this ship, give us time to go out and find The Guy, and possibly have enough success to retain core players and attract quality free agents. Because, the alternative of continuing to gamble wildly at QB and shuffle the deck every year....that is going to lead to being....the Cleveland Browns from 1999-2017. I can't beat that dead horse enough. We are literally tracking towards that level of mismanagement. All that shuffling didn't lead to franchise QB's at every turn. It led to almost 20 years of suffering.

As an organization, I am very concerned we are teetering on that ledge. I was dead set against a "full rebuild" after the 2019 season because I said that most organizations that undertake such a venture take years and years to ever see success again. There just isn't a great precedent for that in the history of the NFL, ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era. Successful franchises constantly retool and tweak to maintain a level of winning that is acceptable. They don't put charges around the foundation and raze it to the ground in an attempt to build from nothing. It is a massive gamble to do something like that and it has oddly gone much better than expected but this new foundation we are building hasn't set yet. We fug it up and it will come crumbling down, yet again.

 

 

So you are content with us being average for years to come.  We get a journeyman QB, make the rest of the team strong and we can go 9-8.  Maybe one year we win a few close games and go 11-6 and get in the playoffs and probably lose.  

Cleveland wasn't bad because they overdrafted QBs.  They were bad because they didn't draft QBs well.  They had a good line, one of the best LTs of all time, and it still didn't' matter.

Also teams don't for the most part don't maintain a level of winning.  Most teams have good yeasr and bad years.  

This isn't about tearing the team to the ground but instead finding a QB.  The teams that consistatnly win are those that have the best QB play.

You are overstating players wanting to leave, most players go where the dollars go, even if a few leave it doesn't matter if you find a QB.

An elite QB is worth more wins to your team then a hand full of any other players.  Its not even just about positional value, its also about avaiilbity.  I can replace a safety or WR in free agency.  Even if want to spend the money on a QB in free agency there is a very good chance you can't find one.

I'm not talking about spending a 1st round pick every year, since Cam how many QBs have we drafted in the 1st round? 2nd round?

I guess you and I just have different goals for the team.

 

 

[firefox1234]

54 minutes ago, CRA said:

why would any NFL team go into week 1 next year with Sam Darnold as your starter?  

 

 

I would like to believe this organization isn’t dumb enough to make the same mistake twice but yet here we are….