Tepper: Stop the Stadium from Being Overran on a Constant Basis

[glenwo2]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

He doesn't care because he gets paid either way. 

And that's the way it is.  

[TheBigKat]

1 minute ago, Seltzer said:

I'm not disputing that winning is the ultimate cure for what ails this franchise.  But without a proven LT or QB, we are still a long ways away from winning.

And it's becoming a vicious cycle... the team sucks, fairweather fans sell, the experience sucks for the most loyal fans.

Like you said it has been 4+ years of this... I don't think Tepper has earned the right or latitude with fans to expect them to keep supporting this sinking ship cart blanche until they start winning.

Thousands of PSL owners have already walked away... there are a lot more of us on the precipice.

Just saying winning will cure all is quaint at this point.  And I mean that with no disrespect.

Winning is this ephemeral thing that this team simply can't capture and doesn't seem to be even close if we're being honest.

Something has to be done in the interim.

You do realize the league played most of the games last year without attendance and still had amazing revenue. TV contracts are record breaking and shared amongst the teams. He isn’t up at night worried about you, me or any of us. Now if FOX wants to drop the NFL he would be worried

[BIGH2001]

1 minute ago, Seltzer said:

I'm not disputing that winning is the ultimate cure for what ails this franchise.  But without a proven LT or QB, we are still a long ways away from winning.

And it's becoming a vicious cycle... the team sucks, fairweather fans sell, the experience sucks for the most loyal fans.

Like you said it has been 4+ years of this... I don't think Tepper has earned the right or latitude with fans to expect them to keep supporting this sinking ship cart blanche until they start winning.

Thousands of PSL owners have already walked away... there are a lot more of us on the precipice.

Just saying winning will cure all is quaint at this point.  And I mean that with no disrespect.

Winning is this ephemeral thing that this team simply can't capture and doesn't seem to be even close if we're being honest.

Something has to be done in the interim.

Yeah, but you're not going to see a half-empty stadium of just Panther fans when the "major" franchises come to town. If we were playing the Dolphins or the Texans or someone like that and we sucked like we do now, then that's what you would get. We've had three pretty noteworthy teams (Philly, Minnesota and NE) come in this year. In a bad year, you are going to see those fans take over the stadium. I think you'll see a lot more just empty seats soon.

 

[SizzleBuzz]

33 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

I can continue to be patient on this master plan, but not with the current disregard for PSL owners who want to support the team.

What would it take for you to drop your PSL?

 

33 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

Tepper should cancel the PSL's for owners who sell their tickets consistently and buy them out.

The Denver Broncos did cancel season tickets for a number of Broncos "fans" who consistently sold their tix and rarely ever attended...

...thing is the Broncos have an 87,000 person waiting list for season-tickets. 

A part of the whole electronic ticketing "system" is to track who is doing what with tix and for how much...as well as allow the team/league to capture some of the upside when PSL holders scalp tix. 

In the absence of a waiting list Tepper isn't going to cancel or buy-out anyone, nor should he be expected to...simply an illogical pipe dream.

Edited November 8, 2021 by SizzleBuzz

[Seltzer]

7 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

Yeah, but you're not going to see a half-empty stadium of just Panther fans when the "major" franchises come to town. If we were playing the Dolphins or the Texans or someone like that and we sucked like we do now, then that's what you would get. We've had three pretty noteworthy teams (Philly, Minnesota and NE) come in this year. In a bad year, you are going to see those fans take over the stadium. I think you'll see a lot more just empty seats soon.

 

I just wonder how embarrassed Tepper will be when the stadium really is empty of fans except for the opposite team.

May be he needs more visceral embarrassment than even how poorly the team is playing.

If that's the case, like I said, there are literally thousands of PSL owners ready to give him his wish.

[jayboogieman]

13 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

I understand free markets perfectly well.  And Tepper can stick to that mantra, but he will have no fanbase left that actually is interesting in paying to watch the team live.

He has to decide what is worth more to him long-term.  Obviously, there will be pissed off people who won't be able to profit.  But revoking PSL's has been done and it should be done if he cares about the most loyal fans.

There have been thousands of PSL owners who have simply walked away.  I know b/c I'm there.  Tepper also has to know what a huge problem this is.

I don't care about the feelings of PSL owners who simply view this as an investment.  If Tepper really has no more concern for this team beyond that, he should sell the team.

If he does actually care about bringing a championship to the Carolinas and developing a culture worth a damn, he has to do something.

Not doing something is straight up malfeasance, and it is destroying the most loyal part of the fanbase.

I don't think he cares. The team is an investment and an ego stroke. He's one of 31 people that own an NFL franchise. That's an exclusive club. Even better for his ego, he's part of an even smaller club that owns an NFL and MLS franchise.

If the fans refuse to come to games, he'll simply move the team and not care one bit.

[BIGH2001]

1 minute ago, jayboogieman said:

I don't think he cares. The team is an investment and an ego stroke. He's one of 31 people that own an NFL franchise. That's an exclusive club. Even better for his ego, he's part of an even smaller club that owns an NFL and MLS franchise.

If the fans refuse to come to games, he'll simply move the team and not care one bit.

Suck for a few more years and then the city refuses to pay for his stadium and he'll be gone to San Antonio or somewhere like that. Piece of poo.

[jayboogieman]

Just now, BIGH2001 said:

Suck for a few more years and then the city refuses to pay for his stadium and he'll be gone to San Antonio or somewhere like that. Piece of poo.

Exactly. The owners don't care what the fans want as they know if they refuse to come to games in one city, other cities will welcome them with open arms.

[45catfan]

I tried to sell my tickets for today's WELL below face value and didn't get a bite.  I almost forfeited my PSLs this year and thought if the team did well I could maybe actually be able to sell them.  So much for that and there's no way I'm paying for tickets again next season.  The experience has sucked for years now anyway.  When all the prime tailgating spots got taken away on the north side of the stadium for development and 'text a snitch' was introduced in the stadium was the beginning of the end for me.

[Seltzer]

6 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I don't think he cares. The team is an investment and an ego stroke. He's one of 31 people that own an NFL franchise. That's an exclusive club. Even better for his ego, he's part of an even smaller club that owns an NFL and MLS franchise.

If the fans refuse to come to games, he'll simply move the team and not care one bit.

I'm starting to honestly become concerned that is the trajectory this team is on.  I didn't go to games back in 2001, but the stadium environment has become the worst I've seen in 16 years.  

It's not just the poor performance of the team, although that certainly plays a big part.  And it didn't happen overnight.

Many things since 2006 have taken the shine off of attending live.  HD TV viewing, the expense and time of attending a game, fantasy football, Covid, etc. have all led to less crowd engagement and "butts in the seats."

Other people have rightly referenced TV revenues and the fact that live attendance certainly doesn't make or break a team financially when the TV contracts are so big.

But a piss poor stadium environment looks bad, and you're right, Tepper could ultimately blame the Panthers fans and just walk away.

I'm just saying it's not on us as fans, we have done our part, and we don't feel like the owner cares at all.

Ultimately, everyone is right that I alone really have no influence over the NFL machine.

It is still cathartic nonetheless to vent to the only group of people that may understand.

In the end, all I can reiterate is that the current stadium experience is awful and unsustainable if the desired result is an engaged fanbase.

 

[45catfan]

What is the incentive for PSL owners to go to games with this product?  It's not like we can get a refund.  We have to pay for the tickets in full prior to the season.  At this point, unless you are wealthy, you are just throwing good money after bad.  Gas, parking, tailgate food, beverages (soft and adult) a beverage or two in the stadium and perhaps a snack at concessions.  That crap adds up quickly.  It's a money decision for me, I'd rather my seat sit empty if I'm unable to sell tickets than spend one more penny on such a poor product.

[ClawOn]

Very well said @Seltzer. Creating apathy among the once loyal is a path to permanent failure. 

The opposing fan situation absolutely must be addressed. 

As far as the football product, the only thing I'd say is that at least changes were attempted. Unfortunately,  those changes didn't work out. 

 

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

What is the incentive for PSL owners to go to games with this product?  It's not like we can get a refund.  We have to pay for the tickets in full prior to the season.  At this point, unless you are wealthy, you are just throwing good money after bad.  Gas, parking, tailgate food, beverages (soft and adult) a beverage or two in the stadium and perhaps a snack at concessions.  That crap adds up quickly.  It's a money decision for me, I'd rather my seat sit empty if I'm unable to sell tickets than spend one more penny on such a poor product.

I certainty understand your sentiment. And the free market part of me understands why PSL owners sell their tickets. 

But while that is good for them individually, the aggregate effect is collectively awful for the team and the fanbase.

I certainty don't have the authority or for that matter the answer to this problem.

I'm just there at BOA and I know how bad the problem has become

[jayboogieman]

9 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

I'm starting to honestly become concerned that is the trajectory this team is on.  I didn't go to games back in 2001, but the stadium environment has become the worst I've seen in 16 years.  

It's not just the poor performance of the team, although that certainly plays a big part.  And it didn't happen overnight.

Many things since 2006 have taken the shine off of attending live.  HD TV viewing, the expense and time of attending a game, fantasy football, Covid, etc. have all led to less crowd engagement and "butts in the seats."

Other people have rightly referenced TV revenues and the fact that live attendance certainly doesn't make or break a team financially when the TV contracts are so big.

But a piss poor stadium environment looks bad, and you're right, Tepper could ultimately blame the Panthers fans and just walk away.

I'm just saying it's not on us as fans, we have done our part, and we don't feel like the owner cares at all.

Ultimately, everyone is right that I alone really have no influence over the NFL machine.

It is still cathartic nonetheless to vent to the only group of people that may understand.

In the end, all I can reiterate is that the current stadium experience is awful and unsustainable if the desired result is an engaged fanbase.

 

I don't blame you for venting. Sometimes it helps to get things off your chest. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Tepper moves the team. He's not a southern guy and would probably prefer a northern city or a larger one. Toronto could be a destination for an NFL team.