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If you could rewind time…Would you have picked Mac Jones? (Article)

WarPanthers89

By WarPanthers89,
in Carolina Panthers

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
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4 hours ago, panthers55 said:

One thing I have pondered is why QB can't improve arm strength or at least ball velocity. It gets taught routinely in high school and college. If qbs can get stronger as they work out with an NFL regime why wouldn't they be able to improve velocity. Seems a lot of it is technique more than brute strength..

https://www.finchperformance.ca/post/3-ways-to-increase-velocity-when-throwing-the-football

Of course they can, the only thing is the older you are the greater the chance you are already close to your maximum, but there is chance for growth both from technique and strength/flexibility.

Everyone wanted to make fun of Mac's shirtless picture but in reality that was a plus.  Its clear he has the potential to improve physically, if he was built like Cam and had his current velocity that would be concerning.  Brady is probably a better athlete in his 40s than he was his 20s.  I'm not saying he is going to work out and have a Josh Allen type of arm but its foolish to think he can't improve his velocity some.

QBs are hard to evaluate, everyone likes to talk about ceilings and floors but its hard to quantify the traits that make that up.  People are saying he would get killed behind our line because he can't scramble.  Maybe does a better job of reading pressure and calling protections, maybe he gets the ball out quicker.

Sam has all the tools in the world that you would want for a QB, as far as arm and mobility and size, but would you consider him to have a high ceiling?  If a QB has terrible accuracy or processing is it possible for him to still have a high ceiling?

 

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

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3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Sam has all the tools in the world that you would want for a QB, as far as arm and mobility and size, but would you consider him to have a high ceiling?  If a QB has terrible accuracy or processing is it possible for him to still have a high ceiling?

 

That's the thing I don't think Darnold has terrible accuracy or processing.

The big limiting factor for him are his mechanics, which improved during the offseason and regressed the more he got beaten up behind this Oline.

His potential is still through the roof IF this Oline doesn't get him killed first.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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17 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Of course they can, the only thing is the older you are the greater the chance you are already close to your maximum, but there is chance for growth both from technique and strength/flexibility.

Everyone wanted to make fun of Mac's shirtless picture but in reality that was a plus.  Its clear he has the potential to improve physically, if he was built like Cam and had his current velocity that would be concerning.  Brady is probably a better athlete in his 40s than he was his 20s.  I'm not saying he is going to work out and have a Josh Allen type of arm but its foolish to think he can't improve his velocity some.

QBs are hard to evaluate, everyone likes to talk about ceilings and floors but its hard to quantify the traits that make that up.  People are saying he would get killed behind our line because he can't scramble.  Maybe does a better job of reading pressure and calling protections, maybe he gets the ball out quicker.

Sam has all the tools in the world that you would want for a QB, as far as arm and mobility and size, but would you consider him to have a high ceiling?  If a QB has terrible accuracy or processing is it possible for him to still have a high ceiling?

 

Teddy had almost as bad of an OL last year and still completed passes at a high rate because he was much quicker to process the field and make the decisions. He just sucked at making decisions other than the most conservative possible one.

So, I actually don't believe Jones would perform worse than Sam here. 

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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18 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

That's the thing I don't think Darnold has terrible accuracy or processing.

The big limiting factor for him are his mechanics, which improved during the offseason and regressed the more he got beaten up behind this Oline.

His potential is still through the roof IF this Oline doesn't get him killed first.

stats say otherwise

his accuracy has always been terrible.

 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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22 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Td's and not turning the ball over, (as turnovers can lead to easy td's for the other team).    

The Patriots as a team have more td's than any other team that starts a rookie qb.

He has 6 INTs and 9 TDs. The Patriots getting TDs in other ways outside of him, just shows how great of a situation he is in. They are also 4-4 with all of that going on…

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Davidson Deac II Grand Master

Davidson Deac II

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17 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He has 6 INTs and 9 TDs. The Patriots getting TDs in other ways outside of him, just shows how great of a situation he is in. They are also 4-4 with all of that going on…

I don't disagree, he is in a better situation.  Just saying that he doesn't appear to make a lot of dumb throws.  Which imo is just as critical as throwing td's. 

Fwiw, his td to int ration is on par with Brady's in TB's first full year as a starter with NE.  Brady finished his first season with 18 td's and 12 int's.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Teddy had almost as bad of an OL last year and still completed passes at a high rate because he was much quicker to process the field and make the decisions. He just sucked at making decisions other than the most conservative possible one.

So, I actually don't believe Jones would perform worse than Sam here. 

I agree.  People need to realize that sacks and pressures are QB stats as much as they are O-line stats.

Not saying we don't need to improve our O-line, we do very badly, but the QB does bears a lot of the responsibility.

Speaking of Teddy, do you think he would have done better, worse, or the same this year, instead of Sam?

Our PPG were actually a little higher last year, with a defense that wasn't near as good.  Often a really good defense makes your offense a little easier to play.

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

I agree.  People need to realize that sacks and pressures are QB stats as much as they are O-line stats.

Not saying we don't need to improve our O-line, we do very badly, but the QB does bears a lot of the responsibility.

Speaking of Teddy, do you think he would have done better, worse, or the same this year, instead of Sam?

Our PPG were actually a little higher last year, with a defense that wasn't near as good.  Often a really good defense makes your offense a little easier to play.

 

I think Teddy would have done better overall but I do think our offense would still be struggling without CMC. Our red zone stats are up slightly from last year.

I do also believe the drops wouldn't nearly be as big of a deal.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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28 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I don't disagree, he is in a better situation.  Just saying that he doesn't appear to make a lot of dumb throws.  Which imo is just as critical as throwing td's. 

Fwiw, his td to int ration is on par with Brady's in TB's first full year as a starter with NE.  Brady finished his first season with 18 td's and 12 int's.

Brady was known for his clutch throws and wins early in his career. They leaned on Bill’s defense for the most part.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 hour ago, OldhamA said:

That's the thing I don't think Darnold has terrible accuracy or processing.

The big limiting factor for him are his mechanics, which improved during the offseason and regressed the more he got beaten up behind this Oline.

His potential is still through the roof IF this Oline doesn't get him killed first.

You keep beating that drum but it just isn't true. There have been multitudes of people in the league and around the league that talked about how he struggles with processing. There is literally tape there showing this and that it isn't mechanics. 

I have no idea why you continue to believe it's predominatly mechanics. He keeps struggling from clean pockets, as well. What you are saying is literally a fantasy.

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

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You know it is always hindsight when you talk about a player we could have .

Some many people put Jones down because he wasn't athletic enough like Wilson and Fields but he IMO is probably the best rookie QB of the draft.

I love the Horn pick and the injury really makes you want to second guess the pick.  If we had the chance to redo this pick I would have been happy with either of them.  Jones but not Fields. 

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Dragoon11 Rising Star

Dragoon11

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Posted (edited)
On 11/4/2021 at 12:34 PM, ForJimmy said:

The real question is if and I mean IF Mike White keeps playing great do we try to acquire him or Zach this offseason??

I like what I'm seeing from Mike White so far. He looks very poised in the pocket and is making big league throws! Hated that he hurt his wrist/hand last night. 

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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8 hours ago, Varking said:

I played ball in college as well. When you pitch you don’t want to do any sort of hard lifting and then you need to give your arm rest. This is especially true during the season. That’s why you lift lightly. The only time you can make transformative changes to your muscle structure is the offseason and depending on how quickly that’s going on you don’t also have the time to properly work on mechanics and stretching. 
 

You have to pick and choose your battles with that but that’s why most people who are throwers don’t have these massive body transformations. 

In college you play football when you aren't going to class or doing others things. In the pros football is your job and all you do. You have time for whatever you need to do. You are getting paid a ton to do nothing else. The equipment and technology they have available to them now is way beyond anything you would have had no matter where you went. No there is no comparison.

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