The Panthers….. not an attractive destination for top shelf talent?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, hepcat said:

I dunno because over the years I've seen many "top shelf" free agents sign with Jacksonville, Washington, Detroit, Cleveland, you name it. Sometimes it really is just about the money.

And those guys are absolutely available to us but are those the players you want to sign? If your sole motivation is getting your money I, FOR SURE, don't fault you. However, I probably don't want you as the core part of the winning team I am building because you aren't here to win, you are here to get paid. 

 

[hepcat]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

And those guys are absolutely available to us but are those the players you want to sign? If your sole motivation is getting your money I, FOR SURE, don't fault you. However, I probably don't want you as the core part of the winning team I am building because you aren't here to win, you are here to get paid. 

 

That's kind of my point, are guys that are willing to sign with the Panthers really difference makers at this point? Even if they're a big name and command a big salary? This franchise has a ton of problems from the top down, like many other franchises that sign big names and "win the offseason" every year. A few big name free agents or trade targets aren't going to make any difference. It's like pissing on a forest fire. 

[X-Clown]

This thread needs to be moved to the Hornets forum because it has no relevance to the Panthers.

Edited November 4, 2021 by X-Clown

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, hepcat said:

That's kind of my point, are guys that are willing to sign with the Panthers really difference makers at this point? Even if they're a big name and command a big salary? This franchise has a ton of problems from the top down, like many other franchises that sign big names and "win the offseason" every year. A few big name free agents or trade targets aren't going to make any difference. It's like pissing on a forest fire. 

I do wish we had the ability to attract a better class of OL. That's another big worry. They might have mismanaged that unit so badly, we will struggle to get anyone worth a fug in free agency. 

We HAVE to be able to get better in free agency because it will take multiple drafts to fix that unit. 

[Riverboat Ron]

I honestly think the NFL needs to do something about contracts in states with different tax laws. Ex. Florida with no income tax. It gives an unfair advantage to those teams and should be reflected directly on the salary cap. It’s basically free money to bribe a player to play for the exact same cap hit as a player in North Carolina.
 

On the flip side California has a huge income tax but offers a market in which players can earn extra through sponsorship. It’s basically anyone not in a big market or Florida that is left out in the cold.

[Catsfan69]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The only guy you mentioned who is relevant is Reddick. FAs from years and regimes past aren't relevant to the conversation. Reddick's contract reflects the reality that he didn't have much of a market which is surprising given his stats last season but a one year fairly small money contract was his best bet.

It makes no sense after all those sacks that he didn't have a market

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Riverboat Ron said:

I honestly think the NFL needs to do something about contracts in states with different tax laws. Ex. Florida with no income tax. It gives an unfair advantage to those teams and should be reflected directly on the salary cap. It’s basically free money to bribe a player to play for the exact same cap hit as a player in North Carolina.
 

On the flip side California has a huge income tax but offers a market in which players can earn extra through sponsorship. It’s basically anyone not in a big market or Florida that is left out in the cold.

All the Florida teams suck except Tampa. 

I don't think the NFL needs to do anything about it. There are enough loopholes in the federal and state tax codes to drive an 18 wheeler through, especially if you are rich or wealthy. People still want to play in various areas for various reasons and not everyone cares as much about the tax implications as others do. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Catsfan69 said:

It makes no sense after all those sacks that he didn't have a market

He was largely a bust in his career and had lots of production in his contract year. The market is usually fairly wary of guys that have that career arc. 

His role changed quite a bit to aid that production but I can understand the skepticism. Plus, he doesn't fit the mold of what a lot of teams would necessarily want in an EDGE guy.

[unicar15]

I fully expect us to trade at least our 2022 1st round pick for a QB this off-season. Whether it’s Rodgers, Watson, Wilson, Tua, or maybe a guy like Derek Carr. 
 

I don’t think Tepper has any desire to stick with rookie QBs or the guys we have on the roster. 
 

The scenarios I see playing out would be:

Rodgers - If Love balls out then they’re going to stick with him. Rodgers will be moved or released. I could easily see this happen. They’ve wanted Love for a while now. I don’t think they’d release Rodgers with him playing so well early and a SB possibility. But they aren’t going to rush to give him his job back if Love plays well. If players rally behind Love could there be a mid season release to curb distraction? Would be nuts. 
 

Watson - Charges are dropped or settled. He’s moved and the Panthers trade a boatload for  him. 
 

Wilson - He’s an outlier and Idt there is any way SEA trades him. But he could force his way out. Likely not to us…but could be a MIA target which opens up possibly the trade for Tua.

Tua - Aside from his injury history I really like Tua. I would trade a mid 1st round pick for him. He’d be a way better option than any QBs coming out. 
 

Carr - Hes having a career year on a dumpster fire team. I think the only way he gets moved is if someone overpays for him OR he forces his way out. With how close we are (I believe a QB away from contending) I would trade multiple 1st round picks for him. It’d be interesting to see if the Raiders new HC would take that in an effort to start fresh. May be good for both sides. 

[cookinbrak]

2 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Wasn't Reddick a FA?

Kevin Greene was.

I believe Eric Davis was.

What level FA was Michael Barrow?

Keyshawn sucked but he was a big name.

 

Who am I forgetting that had a name and came?

Stephen Davis.

Mike Wahle

Ricky Proehl

OP knows about as much about football as my cat knows about gardening.

Edited November 4, 2021 by cookinbrak

[BrianS]

2 hours ago, TheBigKat said:

We had THE GUY at the time in Newton, that didn’t really bring anyone

Cam was a unicorn, and comparing him to every other franchise QB is not relevant.

As a free agent RB, why would you come play with Cam when you know he's going to be taking carries that you otherwise might get on any other team?  That said, we did manage to bring in Tolbert.

As a free agent receiver, why would you come play with Cam when the guy is a sub 60% passer and has Greg Olsen as his primary safety blanket?  That said, we did manage to bring in Cotchery (who caught it) and Ginn (who had his best professional years here).

Our interior OLine was generally really good in that era with Kalil / Turner / Norwell.  We managed to bring in Michael Oher who barring injuries was our best LT since Gross.  While it was a mistake, we also brought in Matt Kalil.  Had he worked out, he would have been huge.

Who, specifically, would you have wanted that we didn't get?  Bear in mind, these were also the years of perpetual cap hell.  Regardless of the fact it was self inflicted, it was still a fact of our situation.

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

It makes no sense after all those sacks that he didn't have a market

One year wonder. He didn't turn down big money long-term deals to sign here for a year. All he was getting was one year prove it offers so he went with his old college HC and DC. Makes sense.

[BrianS]

7 minutes ago, unicar15 said:

I fully expect us to trade at least our 2022 1st round pick for a QB this off-season. Whether it’s Rodgers, Watson, Wilson, Tua, or maybe a guy like Derek Carr. 
 

I don’t think Tepper has any desire to stick with rookie QBs or the guys we have on the roster. 
 

The scenarios I see playing out would be:

Rodgers - If Love balls out then they’re going to stick with him. Rodgers will be moved or released. I could easily see this happen. They’ve wanted Love for a while now. I don’t think they’d release Rodgers with him playing so well early and a SB possibility. But they aren’t going to rush to give him his job back if Love plays well. If players rally behind Love could there be a mid season release to curb distraction? Would be nuts. 
 

Watson - Charges are dropped or settled. He’s moved and the Panthers trade a boatload for  him. 
 

Wilson - He’s an outlier and Idt there is any way SEA trades him. But he could force his way out. Likely not to us…but could be a MIA target which opens up possibly the trade for Tua.

Tua - Aside from his injury history I really like Tua. I would trade a mid 1st round pick for him. He’d be a way better option than any QBs coming out. 
 

Carr - Hes having a career year on a dumpster fire team. I think the only way he gets moved is if someone overpays for him OR he forces his way out. With how close we are (I believe a QB away from contending) I would trade multiple 1st round picks for him. It’d be interesting to see if the Raiders new HC would take that in an effort to start fresh. May be good for both sides. 

I love your positivity, but sir, I don't think there is a QB in this league who would willingly come here to play behind this line.  It really is on course to be historically awful.  If the line was just average, it would be a very different story.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, unicar15 said:

I fully expect us to trade at least our 2022 1st round pick for a QB this off-season. Whether it’s Rodgers, Watson, Wilson, Tua, or maybe a guy like Derek Carr. 
 

I don’t think Tepper has any desire to stick with rookie QBs or the guys we have on the roster. 
 

The scenarios I see playing out would be:

Rodgers - If Love balls out then they’re going to stick with him. Rodgers will be moved or released. I could easily see this happen. They’ve wanted Love for a while now. I don’t think they’d release Rodgers with him playing so well early and a SB possibility. But they aren’t going to rush to give him his job back if Love plays well. If players rally behind Love could there be a mid season release to curb distraction? Would be nuts. 
 

Watson - Charges are dropped or settled. He’s moved and the Panthers trade a boatload for  him. 
 

Wilson - He’s an outlier and Idt there is any way SEA trades him. But he could force his way out. Likely not to us…but could be a MIA target which opens up possibly the trade for Tua.

Tua - Aside from his injury history I really like Tua. I would trade a mid 1st round pick for him. He’d be a way better option than any QBs coming out. 
 

Carr - Hes having a career year on a dumpster fire team. I think the only way he gets moved is if someone overpays for him OR he forces his way out. With how close we are (I believe a QB away from contending) I would trade multiple 1st round picks for him. It’d be interesting to see if the Raiders new HC would take that in an effort to start fresh. May be good for both sides. 

Rodgers would never play a down in Carolina. I have absolutely zero doubts he doesn't want anything to do with us at his age. He's likely just retire if they traded him to us. Also, no one is going to trade for Aaron Rodgers. He has one year left on his deal at a whopping $46 mil. All everyone has to do is basically wait for him to get cut this offseason, which is almost certain to happen. 

Watson is possible if he wants to come here and Caserio comes to his senses. I see the first as mildly unlikely and the last as extremely unlikely.

Wilson isn't coming here. Period.

Tua would be an option if Watson goes to Miami, ASSUMING he isn't included in that deal(which I have to assume he would be). I have mixed feelings about Tua, so I wouldn't want to give up more than one 1st rounder for him. 

Carr I would be completely down to get. He's exactly the kind of guy that would probably thrive in this offense, he has a cheap last year of his deal(2022), and he is reasonably young(30). However, I wouldn't give up the farm for him and he is going to want a contract extension, so I also don't want to be giving him top 5 money, salary cap jump or not. I'd LOVE to have Carr but there is also a price limit. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by kungfoodude