Matt Rhule being as honest as it will get

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Players chase money but winning players also chase opportunity. It's the reason players like Matt Stafford didn't chose us or the Jags or any of the rest of the bad franchises in the NFL. 

I don't see much in the way of immediate help in the draft, hence why I would rather pursue a competent veteran QB. If we just start the process of getting the OL fixed and then let our strengths(defense, running game) carry us in 2022, perhaps we can attract a top tier QB talent or go for broke in the 2023 draft to get The Guy. 

We will see what happens.

attract a top tier QB talent?  how often does that really happen.

We need to quit looking for shortcuts.  Most franchise QBs follow the same path.  They play for the team that drafted them and they are drafted early, anything else is an exception and is what has got us to this point already.

We need to find our Mahomes or Herbert or Burrow.  Its not easy but its the best chance for sustained, long term success.  

Making the rest of you team better actually works counter to making that happen.  I'm not saying force a QB draft pick, maybe we have to wait until the following year, but looking for a competent veteran can work against you.  A lot of people thought Teddy was a competent veteran. 

Also people need to quit expecting immediate help in the draft at the QB position, unless you are picking first and there is a prospect like Manning or Luck there is always question marks about QBs.  Of course Horn was safer than Fields, or Chase Young before Herbert, or all the players before Mahomes.  You gamble and hope, and if it doesn't work you try again in a few years. 

I'm not saying pass on a great OT prospect for a terrible QB prospect but if that QB prospect is anywhere close you have to consider them because they are that important.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mav1234]

27 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That has been my suspicion the entire season, TBH. I see them pulling up short on routes that Darnold is leading them into big hits and I see some frustration when guys are streaking wide open. Plus, the ball placement and timing is so obviously bad.

IMO, they have zero confidence in Darnold. They know who he is and they aren't playing hard for him as a result. 

The thing is, all our receivers were dropping balls all training camp .... Even from Grier and PJ. Why do that because you dislike Darnold?  Did these guys really quit on the team before a single game??

And some of these drops are thrown perfectly... And, we had one of our highest number of drops vs Houston while we were still winning...

No doubt some drops are on Sam, but some clearly aren't... I'm really wondering what's going on with our receivers coaching.

[AU-panther]

10 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

The thing is, all our receivers were dropping balls all training camp .... Even from Grier and PJ. Why do that because you dislike Darnold?  Did these guys really quit on the team before a single game??

And some of these drops are thrown perfectly... And, we had one of our highest number of drops vs Houston while we were still winning...

No doubt some drops are on Sam, but some clearly aren't... I'm really wondering what's going on with our receivers coaching.

be careful with facts around here.

Here is what happened.  Our WRs have dropped an unusually high amount of passes, might just be standard deviation.

Steve Smith made a comment about hospital balls, and now every fan is trying to create some narrative that all of this is connected.

The team isn't losing because it has quit.  Its losing because it isn't playing well at some very important positions.

 

 

[panthers55]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It's going to take a tremendous defensive effort to best New England and luckily we have a rookie QB we are facing. Think about all the talking heads and analysts that keep saying how predictable we are on offense. Boy if that isn't tailor made for Belichick to roast us. 

The Patriots like to play man and pressure you which is what teams have done effectively against us. I don't think we match up that well. Hopefully our defense can stop Mac and keep the game low scoring. That is the best chance we have to win.

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yep. Another top notch defensive performance on Sunday should have put us back in the top 10 overall defenses and likely will be a top 5 pass defense unit. 

No reason to fight it, we are a run the ball and shut the other team down type of team. Same as the Fox era, same as the Rivera era.

[Catsfan69]

1 hour ago, uncfan888 said:

I agree with you. If we could get a real qb in here, we could compete with the top of the conference. We have most of the pieces. That's why I was so for the deshaun trade. Maybe it can still happen in the offseason if Miami doesn't get. Hell, I'd take Rodgers or Russell too. 

Yeah who wouldn't take Rodgers or Wilson.

Wilson is the best QB of his generation and a top 5 QB.

Rodgers is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league. 

That's a no brainer.

[uncfan888]

8 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Yeah who wouldn't take Rodgers or Wilson.

Wilson is the best QB of his generation and a top 5 QB.

Rodgers is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league. 

That's a no brainer.

I mentioned them because they're unhappy and wanting to go to new teams

[Catsfan69]

Just now, uncfan888 said:

I mentioned them because they're unhappy and wanting to go to new teams

Well I've been asking for us to try and get Wilson over Watson for months.

I might hate State but let's bring him home.

[kungfoodude]

9 hours ago, AU-panther said:

attract a top tier QB talent?  how often does that really happen.

We need to quit looking for shortcuts.  Most franchise QBs follow the same path.  They play for the team that drafted them and they are drafted early, anything else is an exception and is what has got us to this point already.

We need to find our Mahomes or Herbert or Burrow.  Its not easy but its the best chance for sustained, long term success.  

Making the rest of you team better actually works counter to making that happen.  I'm not saying force a QB draft pick, maybe we have to wait until the following year, but looking for a competent veteran can work against you.  A lot of people thought Teddy was a competent veteran. 

Also people need to quit expecting immediate help in the draft at the QB position, unless you are picking first and there is a prospect like Manning or Luck there is always question marks about QBs.  Of course Horn was safer than Fields, or Chase Young before Herbert, or all the players before Mahomes.  You gamble and hope, and if it doesn't work you try again in a few years. 

I'm not saying pass on a great OT prospect for a terrible QB prospect but if that QB prospect is anywhere close you have to consider them because they are that important.

I don't disagree that a draft prospect is the preference but the problem with QB draft roulette for bad franchises(which we definitively are) is that it can end up in a multi-year search. That's why I compared our 2018 to current span to the Browns 1999-2017 span. It looks very similar to that at the moment. It isn't uncommon for the bottom of the league to look that way for many years as they flounder trying to get a QB. 

This is another issue I had back in 2019 with the "rebuild" idea. Very few successful NFL franchises ever attempt a rebuild of the scale that we were attempting. Of the few that did, most spent a decade or more in the cellar of the NFL. The issue is that in the NFL, windows are short. Rebuilding is never a good idea, you have to constantly retool as you go to stay competitive. 

Now, on the positive side, we do suddenly have a pretty good and very young roster. We do need to keep retooling and keep improving, because this roster isn't that far from being competitive. In fact, it could compete right now if we just fixed two issues, OL and QB. But, we can't really afford to flounder in the cellar of the NFL for another 1-2 seasons or we won't be retooling, we'll be rebuilding again. That's how you become the Browns, Bengals, Raiders, etc, etc. 

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

I mentioned them because they're unhappy and wanting to go to new teams

 

7 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Well I've been asking for us to try and get Wilson over Watson for months.

I might hate State but let's bring him home.

Yeah but we have to build something they want to go to. Right now, that is far from the case. Especially for veterans that want to win titles and win them now. Neither our rosters nor our coaching staff is going to attract that caliber of talent. Both of those guys have won titles and they are going to be able to find excellent spots IF they decide to even leave(which I genuinely doubt). 

[Rags]

People reading this quote, ignoring the fact we left a TD and about 40-60 yards on the field and a bad pass blocking o-line that literally lets pressure up the middle on almost every drop back: Hm yes, this is solely on Sam and fuging Gardner "Worse Teddy Bridgewater" Minshew is a better QB than Sam.

People reading this post: Lol look at this blind Sam defender.

our whole offense is bad except our run game.

[Rags]

19 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

 

Yeah but we have to build something they want to go to. Right now, that is far from the case. Especially for veterans that want to win titles and win them now. Neither our rosters nor our coaching staff is going to attract that caliber of talent. Both of those guys have won titles and they are going to be able to find excellent spots IF they decide to even leave(which I genuinely doubt). 

Like for Wilson I agree but Dolphins WR core and O-Line are about equal to ours with more invested and with a worse run game.

idk why everyone is so defeatist like we have one of the worst rosters in the NFL. We need guards and a TE/WR2. That's really it.

We have cap coming up, but the problem is there's not a lot of good FA value for o-linemen consistently. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Rags

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Rags said:

Like for Wilson I agree but Dolphins WR core and O-Line are about equal to ours with more invested and with a worse run game.

idk why everyone is so defeatist like we have one of the worst rosters in the NFL. We need guards and a TE/WR2. That's really it.

We have cap coming up, but the problem is there's not a lot of good FA value for o-linemen consistently. 

I don't see Wilson wanting anything to do with the Dolphins either, unless his wife wants to live in Miami. 

We don't have one of the worst rosters in the NFL, we have a pretty good roster, actually. The biggest thing we are lacking is experience and that will matter to an elite, SB winning player. The more guys that have been successful in their careers and know what it takes to win in the postseason, the better your chances are. We are just light on those guys because of our youth. They haven't even really learned how to win consistently in the regular season yet. 

Like it or not, that stuff does matter. 

[Rags]

13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't see Wilson wanting anything to do with the Dolphins either, unless his wife wants to live in Miami. 

We don't have one of the worst rosters in the NFL, we have a pretty good roster, actually. The biggest thing we are lacking is experience and that will matter to an elite, SB winning player. The more guys that have been successful in their careers and know what it takes to win in the postseason, the better your chances are. We are just light on those guys because of our youth. They haven't even really learned how to win consistently in the regular season yet. 

Like it or not, that stuff does matter. 

Where are these other experienced rosters? 

Matthew Stafford, sure. LA unarguably has a better roster than us.  But other than that? What other team that needs a QB has a mix of talent and experience? The Broncos was my answer but now their franchise defensive player just got traded, though their offense has more proven talent than ours. Washington? Sure their roster is arguably better but lol that org.  Minn seems content with Kirk. 

Like I agree with your point, but what other options would he have? There's no other Tampa Bays or Ram like rosters out there that need a QB that's as close to a sure thing.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Rags