Matt Rhule being as honest as it will get

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I agree with that.  I actually thought Winston would have been a really good option at the time. 

I'm not talking about tanking as in tearing down the entire roster, I just don't want spend considerable resources on some journeyman vet QB.  I would prefer to use Darnold for another year, since he is already paid for then pay another Teddy type of deal just to try and be competitive for the short term.

I'm all for building the OL and the rest of the roster, I'm just not worried about finding the decent QB like you, here again that mindset is what leads to the situation we are in.  Maybe we should say a decent QB for less than $2m.

 

I was a big supporter of getting Winston, as well. He was a much smarter option.

IMO, we can keep Darnold but he needs to be the #2 QB. Like you said, he is already on the books for an obscene sum of money. So go get a decent veteran QB(Taylor, Heinicke, Brissett, etc) to actually start and NOT actively hurt the team while we let our defense carry the load and hopefully start the OL rebuild in earnest. 

I wouldn't set a hard limit at $2 mil. I am okay with a $2-6 mil QB on a one year deal. That's peanuts for a starting QB.

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's not one comment though.  89 wasn't the commentator the other week when it was pointed out Sam opened up a game throwing a hosptial ball to DJ.   He just didn't use the phrase hosptial ball.  

Think it was Vilma that time. 

 

I believe Simms mentioned it once already too. It's telling that former players are mentioning how he is leading his receivers into trouble. He's already gotten one KO'ed and almost another. 

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's not one comment though.  89 wasn't the commentator the other week when it was pointed out Sam opened up a game throwing a hosptial ball to DJ.   He just didn't use the phrase hosptial ball.  

Think it was Vilma that time. 

 

and he probably heard it from the broadcast the weak before.

Here again things like this take a life of their own. 

Does Sam throw some passes that might expose his WRs to hits that he shouldn't? yes  More than other QBs would? probably

but we aren't losing because our WRs aren't trying hard because Sam has thrown some "hospital balls". 

We are losing because we aren't playing well, and that includes Sam and the WRs.

People are overthinking things.

 

 

[Byrdman4real]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I believe Simms mentioned it once already too. It's telling that former players are mentioning how he is leading his receivers into trouble. He's already gotten one KO'ed and almost another. 

Sams problem is staring his target down, and passing the ball after he see his target out of his brake. The ball need to be there right after the brake, meaning to ball need to be thrown before the receiver finishes his brake. This is the reason the ball is thrown late, making the DB adjust to the ball or able to tee off on the receiver. The timing routes need to be practiced way better. 

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

and he probably heard it from the broadcast the weak before.

Here again things like this take a life of their own. 

Does Sam throw some passes that might expose his WRs to hits that he shouldn't? yes  More than other QBs would? probably

but we aren't losing because our WRs aren't trying hard because Sam has thrown some "hospital balls". 

We are losing because we aren't playing well, and that includes Sam and the WRs.

People are overthinking things.

 

 

Vilma was busy calling another football game the week prior.  That's what he does now.   

Vilma was a dirty LB in the NFL for a long time.   He simply called out what he saw.  Sam threw DJ into a hit to open the game...and DJ made a business decision on it.   

I don't think that is THE singular issue with the problems on offense.  I think Sam and Rhule have cooked up a soup with many different ingrediants.  But Sam is putting in more ingredients than anyone else from a singular player aspect. 

[AU-panther]

50 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I was a big supporter of getting Winston, as well. He was a much smarter option.

IMO, we can keep Darnold but he needs to be the #2 QB. Like you said, he is already on the books for an obscene sum of money. So go get a decent veteran QB(Taylor, Heinicke, Brissett, etc) to actually start and NOT actively hurt the team while we let our defense carry the load and hopefully start the OL rebuild in earnest. 

I wouldn't set a hard limit at $2 mil. I am okay with a $2-6 mil QB on a one year deal. That's peanuts for a starting QB.

So we go 9-8 instead of 8-9?

People have a bad habit of discounting money.  If its for a QB that probably isn't really going to help you it doesn't matter if it is cheap relative to other QBs.

Could you improve our guard position with that $5m you are going to waste on a journeyman QB? What helps that future QB, an extra win or two from a stop gap QB or spending that money on his O-line.

What if you draft a guy?  Sign Heinicke, keep Darnold as a back up and have a rookie?

Our 1st goal should be to find a franchise QB.  2nd goal is to build the team to help that QB when we do find him.

 

 

[AU-panther]

55 minutes ago, CRA said:

Vilma was busy calling another football game the week prior.  That's what he does now.   

Vilma was a dirty LB in the NFL for a long time.   He simply called out what he saw.  Sam threw DJ into a hit to open the game...and DJ made a business decision on it.   

I don't think that is THE singular issue with the problems on offense.  I think Sam and Rhule have cooked up a soup with many different ingrediants.  But Sam is putting in more ingredients than anyone else from a singular player aspect. 

Vilma might have watched the replay of the game in his prep and heard Steve say it.

Either way its being overplayed by some on here.  This idea that his 'hospital balls' are causing the WRs to quit is getting blown out of proportion.

Its not overcomplicated.  We are playing bad.  WRs are playing worse than expected and Sam is playing bad, which was actually expected by a lot of people.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So we go 9-8 instead of 8-9?

People have a bad habit of discounting money.  If its for a QB that probably isn't really going to help you it doesn't matter if it is cheap relative to other QBs.

Could you improve our guard position with that $5m you are going to waste on a journeyman QB? What helps that future QB, an extra win or two from a stop gap QB or spending that money on his O-line.

What if you draft a guy?  Sign Heinicke, keep Darnold as a back up and have a rookie?

Our 1st goal should be to find a franchise QB.  2nd goal is to build the team to help that QB when we do find him.

If $2-6 mil on a QB breaks you, then you have done a terrible job with the salary cap management. That is actually a very smart financial move at QB, versus what the real life Panthers did in 2020, 2021 and 2022(thanks 5th year option). 

We most likely could not improve our guard situation with $5 mil. After all, look how they spent that money in 2021? Improving at QB and improving the OL are not mutually exclusive situations. Both can be accomplished concurrently. Hence why I am in the "sign a decent veteran QB stop gap in 2022" camp. 

Drafting a rookie QB in 2022 directly and immediately harms our ability to improve the OL through the draft. Remember, we have a total of one Day 1 and Day 2 pick. Frankly, we'd be complete idiots not to take OL with that pick. If you want to dumpster dive in the 4th-7th round at QB, I mean....I guess fine but we all know the odds of those guys panning out is as much as Sam Darnold becoming as good as Rodney Peete. 

I am completely on board with finding a franchise QB but there isn't going to be one available in 2022 outside of a big free agency move for an high end QB. If this past QB class was switched with 2022, I'd be beating the drums to trade up or tank to get one of those guys but this isn't that class.

[mav1234]

8 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Vilma might have watched the replay of the game in his prep and heard Steve say it.

Either way its being overplayed by some on here.  This idea that his 'hospital balls' are causing the WRs to quit is getting blown out of proportion.

Its not overcomplicated.  We are playing bad.  WRs are playing worse than expected and Sam is playing bad, which was actually expected by a lot of people.

I agree completely... The offense is just playing poorly... and tbh, some of these problems predate our losing streak... Its as if the people blaming "hospital balls" for the WR play just ignored everything being said about our WR group's hands in preseason.  this has been a persistent problem, and I think it points at something far outside whether the WRs like Darnold or not.  nor is this excusing Darnold being bad, lol, but we can also acknowledge that a group that was supposed to be one of our strengths is not turning out that way.

last year DJ had the same number of drops he'd had in his first two years combined. there's something off with coaching / preparation imo (this is not me blaming Brady, as I have no clue what is going on there).

[AU-panther]

12 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

If $2-6 mil on a QB breaks you, then you have done a terrible job with the salary cap management. That is actually a very smart financial move at QB, versus what the real life Panthers did in 2020, 2021 and 2022(thanks 5th year option). 

We most likely could not improve our guard situation with $5 mil. After all, look how they spent that money in 2021? Improving at QB and improving the OL are not mutually exclusive situations. Both can be accomplished concurrently. Hence why I am in the "sign a decent veteran QB stop gap in 2022" camp. 

Drafting a rookie QB in 2022 directly and immediately harms our ability to improve the OL through the draft. Remember, we have a total of one Day 1 and Day 2 pick. Frankly, we'd be complete idiots not to take OL with that pick. If you want to dumpster dive in the 4th-7th round at QB, I mean....I guess fine but we all know the odds of those guys panning out is as much as Sam Darnold becoming as good as Rodney Peete. 

I am completely on board with finding a franchise QB but there isn't going to be one available in 2022 outside of a big free agency move for an high end QB. If this past QB class was switched with 2022, I'd be beating the drums to trade up or tank to get one of those guys but this isn't that class.

Is the following year going to be one?  IF it is a good class then they are going to be drafted high and since you are retooling you won't be picking there anyway.  Hence the vicious cycle of never finding a franchise QB.  So at this rate you best luck is catching lightning in a bottle with a vet which the exact thing we just tried.

So basically you want to spend just enough on the QB to make sure you don't get to draft one high on the years one is available in the top 10 but the years they will be available where you pick you don't feel they are good enough to pick?

 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

Vilma might have watched the replay of the game in his prep and heard Steve say it.

Either way its being overplayed by some on here.  This idea that his 'hospital balls' are causing the WRs to quit is getting blown out of proportion.

Its not overcomplicated.  We are playing bad.  WRs are playing worse than expected and Sam is playing bad, which was actually expected by a lot of people.

 

 

the most likely answer, is a NFL LB just called it like he saw it though.  

and I don't know if it is overblown or not.  That's not one of my primary Sam issues.  I know Sam has lots of issues with his game....and when you add them all up togther, the collective sum is clearly problematic and has been. 

I just think more often than not it's the two things being true aspect applying.  Sam Darnold simply can't see the field.  Collectively, the NFL world has made this point loud and clear.  I assume his present teammates know this problem.  I assume his coaches do.   It causes him to do really stupid things with the ball and he often will put people in bad spots because of that.  Does that impact his WRs? If they are human? I assume it would to some degree.  How much?  Who knows.  Most NFL players at some point are going to have to deal with that. 

All of that can be true. 

and at the same time, Robby can be playing like trash this season....and DJ Moore has never had Nuk Hopkins like dependable hands.   

and the OL can be weak and cause a host of problem for others.  From QB to playcaller.  

and Sam can still make horrible decisions and not be a good QB right now...that are not be caused by the OL or Brady. 

Joe Brady can be young and lacking. 

Joe Brady can also be screwed from actually having the basic resources a young and inexperiecned OC probably needs.  He probably at least needs vet QB, or a good QB, or at least a decent OL.  Something. 

Lot of things can be true.   

 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Is the following year going to be one?  IF it is a good class then they are going to be drafted high and since you are retooling you won't be picking there anyway.  Hence the vicious cycle of never finding a franchise QB.  So at this rate you best luck is catching lightning in a bottle with a vet which the exact thing we just tried.

So basically you want to spend just enough on the QB to make sure you don't get to draft one high on the years one is available in the top 10 but the years they will be available where you pick you don't feel they are good enough to pick?

 

You can trade into the top 10-15 you are aware, right? Did the 49ers and Pats not do that this past draft to get "their guy?" Did the Chiefs not do that to get Mahomes?

What you are talking about is precisely what the cellar dwellers of the NFL have done for years. Being bad and overdrafting prospects that were reaches. That's what awful teams do. That's Panic Drafting 101.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

the most likely answer, is a NFL LB just called it like he saw it though.  

and I don't know if it is overblown or not.  That's not one of my primary Sam issues.  I know Sam has lots of issues with his game....and when you add them all up togther, the collective sum is clearly problematic and has been. 

I just think more often than not it's the two things being true aspect applying.  Sam Darnold simply can't see the field.  Collectively, the NFL world has made this point loud and clear.  I assume his present teammates know this problem.  I assume his coaches do.   It causes him to do really stupid things with the ball and he often will put people in bad spots because of that.  Does that impact his WRs? If they are human? I assume it would to some degree.  How much?  Who knows.  Most NFL players at some point are going to have to deal with that. 

All of that can be true. 

and at the same time, Robby can be playing like trash this season....and DJ Moore has never had Nuk Hopkins like dependable hands.   

and the OL can be weak and cause a host of problem for others.  From QB to playcaller.  

and Sam can still make horrible decisions and not be a good QB right now...that are not be caused by the OL or Brady. 

Joe Brady can be young and lacking. 

Joe Brady can also be screwed from actully have the basic resources a young and inexperiecned OC probably needs.  He probably at least needs vet QB, or a good QB, or at least a decent OL.  Something. 

Lot of things can be true.   

 

Yeah and probably most of those things are true.

[1usctrojan]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

the most likely answer, is a NFL LB just called it like he saw it though.  

and I don't know if it is overblown or not.  That's not one of my primary Sam issues.  I know Sam has lots of issues with his game....and when you add them all up togther, the collective sum is clearly problematic and has been. 

I just think more often than not it's the two things being true aspect applying.  Sam Darnold simply can't see the field.  Collectively, the NFL world has made this point loud and clear.  I assume his present teammates know this problem.  I assume his coaches do.   It causes him to do really stupid things with the ball and he often will put people in bad spots because of that.  Does that impact his WRs? If they are human? I assume it would to some degree.  How much?  Who knows.  Most NFL players at some point are going to have to deal with that. 

All of that can be true. 

and at the same time, Robby can be playing like trash this season....and DJ Moore has never had Nuk Hopkins like dependable hands.   

and the OL can be weak and cause a host of problem for others.  From QB to playcaller.  

and Sam can still make horrible decisions and not be a good QB right now...that are not be caused by the OL or Brady. 

Joe Brady can be young and lacking. 

Joe Brady can also be screwed from actully have the basic resources a young and inexperiecned OC probably needs.  He probably at least needs vet QB, or a good QB, or at least a decent OL.  Something. 

Lot of things can be true.   

 

Can’t say this isn’t fair.  Said it all without being a jacka$$.