Matt Rhule being as honest as it will get

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Rags said:

Where are these other experienced rosters? 

Matthew Stafford, sure. LA unarguably has a better roster than us.  But other than that? What other team that needs a QB has a mix of talent and experience? The Broncos was my answer but now their franchise defensive player just got traded. Washington? Sure their roster is arguably better but lol that org.  Minn seems content with Kirk. 

Like I agree with your point, but what other options would he have? There's no other Tampa Bays or Ram like rosters out there that need a QB that's as close to a sure thing.

How about New Orleans. If there was ever a team that needed a QB and was completely built to win now, that's it. But, I generally believe he will stay put in Seattle for the meantime. He is just pointing out that he is getting sick of the underinvestment in the OL. I sort of wish Cam had done that during his time in Carolina. 

But, Wilson has some years left on his career, so if things continue to flounder(by their standards) in Seattle, he may just wait for another landing spot to come available. 

[KillerKat]

This doesn't sound like a good endorsement for Brady. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a new OC next season and just about every move being on the offensive side of the ball.

[Catsfan69]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

 

Yeah but we have to build something they want to go to. Right now, that is far from the case. Especially for veterans that want to win titles and win them now. Neither our rosters nor our coaching staff is going to attract that caliber of talent. Both of those guys have won titles and they are going to be able to find excellent spots IF they decide to even leave(which I genuinely doubt). 

Yes that's ultimately true. They are going to look at this line and say fix it.

That's definitely true.

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

This doesn't sound like a good endorsement for Brady. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a new OC next season and just about every move being on the offensive side of the ball.

I am of the opinion that Brady is not the biggest issue on our offense but Rhule will ultimately can him because someone is going to have to pay for this season's offensive failures(largely created by Rhule). I expect Brady will be the sacrifice and Rhule's public statements seem to indicate he is setting that up. 

[glenwo2]

12 hours ago, AU-panther said:

be careful with facts around here.

Here is what happened.  Our WRs have dropped an unusually high amount of passes, might just be standard deviation.

Steve Smith made a comment about hospital balls, and now every fan is trying to create some narrative that all of this is connected.

The team isn't losing because it has quit.  Its losing because it isn't playing well at some very important positions.

 

 

This.  

I mean it's become absolutely annoying that they took one comment by Smitty and all of a sudden just about EVERY pass Sam makes is a Hospital Ball according to The Huddle.

Sam sucks but please....to the many here who are attached to Smitty's words as the Gospel?   Kindly STFU about that.

WR have a job that they're paid to do.

Carolina WR's haven't been doing that.

It's as simple as that.

Edited November 2, 2021 by glenwo2

[trueblade]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't disagree that a draft prospect is the preference but the problem with QB draft roulette for bad franchises(which we definitively are) is that it can end up in a multi-year search. That's why I compared our 2018 to current span to the Browns 1999-2017 span. It looks very similar to that at the moment. It isn't uncommon for the bottom of the league to look that way for many years as they flounder trying to get a QB. 

This is another issue I had back in 2019 with the "rebuild" idea. Very few successful NFL franchises ever attempt a rebuild of the scale that we were attempting. Of the few that did, most spent a decade or more in the cellar of the NFL. The issue is that in the NFL, windows are short. Rebuilding is never a good idea, you have to constantly retool as you go to stay competitive. 

Now, on the positive side, we do suddenly have a pretty good and very young roster. We do need to keep retooling and keep improving, because this roster isn't that far from being competitive. In fact, it could compete right now if we just fixed two issues, OL and QB. But, we can't really afford to flounder in the cellar of the NFL for another 1-2 seasons or we won't be retooling, we'll be rebuilding again. That's how you become the Browns, Bengals, Raiders, etc, etc. 

I'd love to find a 2022 version of Jake Delhomme. Nobody was throwing a parade when we signed Jake. He wasn't even the game 1 starter (that was Peete). But as soon as Foxy put him in the second half, it was on.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, trueblade said:

I'd love to find a 2022 version of Jake Delhomme. Nobody was throwing a parade when we signed Jake. He wasn't even the game 1 starter (that was Peete). But as soon as Foxy put him in the second half, it was on.

That was a once in a lifetime kind of find, unfortunately. It's pretty rare to find a dumpster dive QB like that(Kurt Warner comes to mind). 

We need something. Honestly, I will settle for just a guy that won't fug it up for the defense while we try to find The Guy.

[Jaxel]

I still think Sam can put it together, but that's just me and it won't hurt my feelings if I'm still wrong lol.

[TheWiz]

This is the most stupidly run franchise in the league…. And it starts with the owner. 

[AU-panther]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't disagree that a draft prospect is the preference but the problem with QB draft roulette for bad franchises(which we definitively are) is that it can end up in a multi-year search. That's why I compared our 2018 to current span to the Browns 1999-2017 span. It looks very similar to that at the moment. It isn't uncommon for the bottom of the league to look that way for many years as they flounder trying to get a QB. 

This is another issue I had back in 2019 with the "rebuild" idea. Very few successful NFL franchises ever attempt a rebuild of the scale that we were attempting. Of the few that did, most spent a decade or more in the cellar of the NFL. The issue is that in the NFL, windows are short. Rebuilding is never a good idea, you have to constantly retool as you go to stay competitive. 

Now, on the positive side, we do suddenly have a pretty good and very young roster. We do need to keep retooling and keep improving, because this roster isn't that far from being competitive. In fact, it could compete right now if we just fixed two issues, OL and QB. But, we can't really afford to flounder in the cellar of the NFL for another 1-2 seasons or we won't be retooling, we'll be rebuilding again. That's how you become the Browns, Bengals, Raiders, etc, etc. 

I'm not opposed to building the roster while you wait to find your franchise QB but this idea of retooling and trying to stay competitive is actually what gets teams into trouble.

Signing Teddy was the team trying to be competitive while it retooled.

Signing Sam was the team trying to be competive white it retooled.  They felt like he was closet to being good than one of the rookies.  Also by trading him that freed up the first round pick to use on the rest of the roster to "retool" the team.  We got greedy.  Everyone wants to win sooner than later.

You can say we can't afford to flounder but you really don't have a choice.  If it was a choice every team would choose to be good.  

You either find a good QB or you don't, sometimes it takes awhile, but wasting resources on average QBs while you look is a waste of resources that hurts you when you actually do find your guy.

I have zero desire to spend resources again on an average or below average QB this offseason.  Either draft a guy or go cheap at the QB position and draft a guy the following year.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm not opposed to building the roster while you wait to find your franchise QB but this idea of retooling and trying to stay competitive is actually what gets teams into trouble.

Signing Teddy was the team trying to be competitive while it retooled.

Signing Sam was the team trying to be competive white it retooled.  They felt like he was closet to being good than one of the rookies.  Also by trading him that freed up the first round pick to use on the rest of the roster to "retool" the team.  We got greedy.  Everyone wants to win sooner than later.

You can say we can't afford to flounder but you really don't have a choice.  If it was a choice every team would choose to be good.  

You either find a good QB or you don't, sometimes it takes awhile, but wasting resources on average QBs while you look is a waste of resources that hurts you when you actually do find your guy.

I have zero desire to spend resources again on an average or below average QB this offseason.  Either draft a guy or go cheap at the QB position and draft a guy the following year.

IMO, the biggest harm done with those decisions was the amount of money given up for Teddy, the draft picks given up for Darnold, the 5th year option for Darnold and the complete and utter lack of any sort of backup QB option or competition in 2020 or 2021. 

So, the choice to get those guys wasn't really as big of a deal as they decisions they made getting those guys. Jameis Winston was a $2 mil deal, Cam Newton a $2 mil deal, Mitch Trubisky $2.5 mil, etc, etc. So, if you are going to gamble, you gamble safe and on something that you aren't investing vast resources in. Rhule and Co. jumped in with both feet with the confidence of a complete idiot with each of these decisions. 

Like I said, I have no problem bringing in someone like Tyrod Taylor on a 1 year, $5.5 mil deal(which Houston did) because the harm is limited long term. Same with taking a guy like Davis Mills to have a backup option available. Those are moves that make sense in the short and long term. What we did in 2020 and 2021 made absolutely no sense. 

I don't want to tank for a top 5 pick. I like the talent available there but tanking over and over just typically leads to more tanking. Get a decent QB, build the OL and the rest of the roster and wait to get your guy in free agency, via trade or through the draft when you have a good roster ready to win now.

[CRA]

3 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

This.  

I mean it's become absolutely annoying that they took one comment by Smitty and all of a sudden just about EVERY pass Sam makes is a Hospital Ball according to The Huddle.

Sam sucks but please....to the many here who are attached to Smitty's words as the Gospel?   Kindly STFU about that.

WR have a job that they're paid to do.

Carolina WR's haven't been doing that.

It's as simple as that.

it's not one comment though.  89 wasn't the commentator the other week when it was pointed out Sam opened up a game throwing a hosptial ball to DJ.   He just didn't use the phrase hosptial ball.  

Think it was Vilma that time. 

 

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

IMO, the biggest harm done with those decisions was the amount of money given up for Teddy, the draft picks given up for Darnold, the 5th year option for Darnold and the complete and utter lack of any sort of backup QB option or competition in 2020 or 2021. 

So, the choice to get those guys wasn't really as big of a deal as they decisions they made getting those guys. Jameis Winston was a $2 mil deal, Cam Newton a $2 mil deal, Mitch Trubisky $2.5 mil, etc, etc. So, if you are going to gamble, you gamble safe and on something that you aren't investing vast resources in. Rhule and Co. jumped in with both feet with the confidence of a complete idiot with each of these decisions. 

Like I said, I have no problem bringing in someone like Tyrod Taylor on a 1 year, $5.5 mil deal(which Houston did) because the harm is limited long term. Same with taking a guy like Davis Mills to have a backup option available. Those are moves that make sense in the short and long term. What we did in 2020 and 2021 made absolutely no sense. 

I don't want to tank for a top 5 pick. I like the talent available there but tanking over and over just typically leads to more tanking. Get a decent QB, build the OL and the rest of the roster and wait to get your guy in free agency, via trade or through the draft when you have a good roster ready to win now.

I agree with that.  I actually thought Winston would have been a really good option at the time. 

I'm not talking about tanking as in tearing down the entire roster, I just don't want spend considerable resources on some journeyman vet QB.  I would prefer to use Darnold for another year, since he is already paid for then pay another Teddy type of deal just to try and be competitive for the short term.

I'm all for building the OL and the rest of the roster, I'm just not worried about finding the decent QB like you, here again that mindset is what leads to the situation we are in.  Maybe we should say a decent QB for less than $2m.

 

[Waldo]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's not one comment though.  89 wasn't the commentator the other week when it was pointed out Sam opened up a game throwing a hosptial ball to DJ.   He just didn't use the phrase hosptial ball.  

Think it was Vilma that time. 

 

I think you are right. Said something like Darnold was going to get his guys hurt throwing those type of passes.