Matt Rhule being as honest as it will get

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Jmac said:

You win or lose with what you got. If he had understood this four weeks ago, we might be above 500. right now. Invest one entire draft and the first pick the season after on defense.....duh.

Yeah, this fairly inevitable. Especially when you saw the "investments" in a struggling offense from 2020 of Sam Darnold, Cam Erving, Pat Elflein, Brady Christensen, Deonte Brown, Terrace Marshall, Shi Smith, Chuba Hubbard and Tommy Tremble.

I mean....there are definitely some potential pieces for the future there but not a single name on that list has made a meaningful upgrade to our offense this season. In most cases, it was lateral or a downgrade. That isn't the path to success on that side of the ball.

So, for all their success defensively, what have they really added to the offense in two offseasons? Basically just Robby Anderson, right? Because Moton, CMC and DJ Moore were already here. 

[PootieNunu]

15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Sam played a decent game by Sam Darnold standards. He played a well below average game by NFL starter standards. 

I am not sure what game you were watching on Sunday but that was legit probably the best offensive line performance we have seen all year(not a high bar to hit, admittedly). The OL had nothing to do with Sam missing throws or being late on throws. 

The drops are a persistent issue but some of that blame is on the poor accuracy and poor timing that Sam has displayed. Definitely not all of it. We have a fleet of offensive players that just aren't making plays or executing when those drops happen. 

Sam Darnold is not being put in a position to succeed. Sam Darnold would likely not succeed even if he were in a position to succeed because he is not capable of seeing the field well enough to play QB in the NFL. That isn't a new problem, it's an entire career problem. 

There was a play later in the game I think we were still down 9-10 before the FG put us up 12-10. The OL collapsed and Sam air mailed it out the back of the endzone. 

Ok all of that is fine, but that is a far cry from "we did not throw the ball into the endzone even one time" that is what I was on about. 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, chbright said:

Yeah idk how they all got the collective YIPS the last 5 weeks but good gosh it's been bad. That's been #1 WTF of the year. Other things kinda knew would happen along the course of the year. Bad games from QB and O-line sure, but the poo show from the WRS, no, didn't see that coming.

As for the CMC, personally, he just gets 20 of the touches, all of Abdullah's and Freeman's touches, some from Hubbard. Only real way those other 2 come in are for a blow for the top 2 guys depending on the situation.

Of note from yesterday: lot more heavy packages than before. And it lead to success. I'm cool with that. As long as Sam can hit the short 3rd down conversions and use the 1st down as an extension if the running game, it may work. On 2nd down, we need to make sure we get into 3rd and 5 or shorter to at least keep a team honest vs just rushing the passer.  If it's a sure as poo pass coming we are screwed ATM all around.

Yeah, the absurd amount of drops and the fact that it is just about everyone is what makes me less inclined to put ALL the blame on the guys dropping the ball. Don't get me wrong....you gotta make those catches, but the fact that it is just about EVERYONE??? Something is clearly up. Obviously a chunk of that is Darnold's poor pass placement and poor timing, but it seems to go beyond that, as well.

I believe we will see CMC at a 90+% usage rate once he returns. Partially because he is a big boost in pass protection(something almost all of our RB's struggle with but him) and no coach we have had can resist using him consistently, for better or for worse. 

Part of what helped Sam not fug that game up for us was getting those third and manageable situations by having an effective running game. Like you said, we had success going heavy and not just trying to be cute offensively in these medium to short yardage scenarios. I think that going run heavy helped Brady out a lot too.

[grimesgoat]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, this fairly inevitable. Especially when you saw the "investments" in a struggling offense from 2020 of Sam Darnold, Cam Erving, Pat Elflein, Brady Christensen, Deonte Brown, Terrace Marshall, Shi Smith, Chuba Hubbard and Tommy Tremble.

I mean....there are definitely some potential pieces for the future there but not a single name on that list has made a meaningful upgrade to our offense this season. In most cases, it was lateral or a downgrade. That isn't the path to success on that side of the ball.

So, for all their success defensively, what have they really added to the offense in two offseasons? Basically just Robby Anderson, right? Because Moton, CMC and DJ Moore were already here. 

I think all of the rookies are keepers.  Most, if not all, will play meaningful minutes next year.

Christensen, Marshall, and Tremble will all start.  Hubbard and Smith will play key backup roles.  Jury is still out on Brown.  The mistake was believing a bunch of draft picks were going to come in and make a difference right away.  When has that ever happened to any team ever?  But with the Panthers being so mediocre this year, these guys should get some valuable on-field time/experience.  Next year we'll see what they can really do.

I can be patient.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

There was a play later in the game I think we were still down 9-10 before the FG put us up 12-10. The OL collapsed and Sam air mailed it out the back of the endzone. 

Ok all of that is fine, but that is a far cry from "we did not throw the ball into the endzone even one time" that is what I was on about. 

I am not the person that made that statement and I didn't read into it what you did, for that matter. 

Sam was below average passing the ball in the Falcons game, although he was good at hurting them with his legs. Below average was an improvement over his past few starters, which were absolutely terrible. 

Listen, I get that hope springs eternal and I get that the offensive struggles are definitely not ALL Sam's fault.....but boy a LOT of the offensive struggles are certainly his fault. He just simply isn't the guy for the multitude of reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum. He just is what he is. 

We need to stop getting hung up on trying to defend him and focus on what that offense did well Sunday, which was rush the ball. That can possibly save our season. Sam Darnold can't. 

[grimesgoat]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, the absurd amount of drops and the fact that it is just about everyone is what makes me less inclined to put ALL the blame on the guys dropping the ball. Don't get me wrong....you gotta make those catches, but the fact that it is just about EVERYONE??? Something is clearly up. Obviously a chunk of that is Darnold's poor pass placement and poor timing, but it seems to go beyond that, as well.

 

I think a lot of those mis-timed plays have to do with the pocket collapsing so quickly.  The ball is getting there sooner or off-target because Darnold is getting blown up so quickly.  Fix the OL and these WRs will suddenly know how to catch again.  Unfortunately, we will not be able to fix this OL until the next offseason or two.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, grimesgoat said:

I think all of the rookies are keepers.  Most, if not all, will play meaningful minutes next year.

Christensen, Marshall, and Tremble will all start.  Hubbard and Smith will play key backup roles.  Jury is still out on Brown.  The mistake was believing a bunch of draft picks were going to come in and make a difference right away.  When has that ever happened to any team ever?  But with the Panthers being so mediocre this year, these guys should get some valuable on-field time/experience.  Next year we'll see what they can really do.

I can be patient.

Christensen we will just have to see. He was a mixed bag in his first start. I am definitely down on him in general just simply because it was this FO/Staff that selected him and their track record with OL is atrocious. Marshall wasn't splashing much but he was making some minor contributions. I think he could definitely stick around as a quality depth piece with the chance to maybe even move up if he improves. Tremble I like but he is a work in progress. The hope is he continues to develop and becomes a valued starter for us. Hubbard and Smith might end up as backups for us, it just depends on how their career arc is. Brown I am out on. If he can't get past these bums, he just isn't it. Plus, he was a 6th rounder anyway. So few of them pan out. 

We need to make meaningful investments in the OL(1st, 2nd, 3rd round draft picks) and get some EFFECTIVE veterans there, as well. Then we also have to eventually figure out QB. You are only going to go so far in the NFL without a competent NFL starter. We currently have zero on the roster.

[ncsfinest21]

The real question is when is CMC coming back? We are barely winning games and need him back asap. I think this is the 3rd week and can be taken off IR this week and available to play.

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Yes Sam has been slow to process. im not a Sam apologist. He has thrown some bad passes. The Giants game was a utter poo show, but it seemed like the benching lit a small fire under Sam. Do I want him to be the starter for the next 10 years? Hell no unless he improves by a lot. However, he is not the only problem on offense. 

When I list our offensive strengths I have not been listing QB. #1 WR. RT. maybe a TE in Tremble. The other guys are trash or rookies that need to develop.

I was just wondering why you said we did not throw the ball into the endzone once? did you mean successfully? 

We didn't get into the end zone through the air what else would I mean? That can't continue no matter where you want to lay blame. If we do that against the Cards or Bills we're talking another blowout. Even the Patriots. Maybe the benching did help and I have given Sam credit for bouncing back but considering how horrific that game was that maybe isn't saying much. At this point Sam has a ton to prove just to show he can or should be the starter next year. We are in a very tough spot we can't get too caught up in becoming attached to one qb. Windows in the nfl open and close quickly. We have to learn from the 2021 offseason we made a poor effort to shore up our qb room we can no longer settle for the PJ Walkers or Will Griers of the nfl we need a competent starter and a real nfl quality backup.

[iamhubby1]

 

15 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

There was a play later in the game I think we were still down 9-10 before the FG put us up 12-10. The OL collapsed and Sam air mailed it out the back of the endzone. 

Ok all of that is fine, but that is a far cry from "we did not throw the ball into the endzone even one time" that is what I was on about. 

 

PJ threw 1 as well. So that's 3. 

 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, grimesgoat said:

I think a lot of those mis-timed plays have to do with the pocket collapsing so quickly.  The ball is getting there sooner or off-target because Darnold is getting blown up so quickly.  Fix the OL and these WRs will suddenly know how to catch again.  Unfortunately, we will not be able to fix this OL until the next offseason or two.

That is some of the problem but Darnold historically and this year has also struggled even more with a clean pocket. TBH, that is the most damning thing about him and it was something that was highlighted by a lot of us when we traded for him initially. It's easy to lay his struggles in the lap of a bad OL but he has proven time and time again that he struggles even more when he does have time to throw from a clean pocket. Hence why so many(here, in the sports media, players, etc) have said his biggest struggle is just seeing the field. 

The WR's......I will see what happens when we have a new QB. I suspect the drops will decrease but we need them to DRAMATICALLY decrease. It will be something to look at in 2022 for sure.

[LxDunn]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I took the comments and put them in to google translator and this is what it said…

This lol

[Shocker]

Water is wet

[BurnNChinn]

52 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Cam was 20td’s (12 of those rushing) and 10 ints. Last season. 
 

are you saying you’d rather have more of PJ than get someone that can actually play at the NFL level. Only person that thinks PJ is NFL material is Rhule and PJ, which is a fuging joke

No PJ is garbage and ur wrong there is another guy that thinks PJ is a nfl material @CRA