It took Rivera a while to win too

[CRA]

11 hours ago, Waldo said:

Ron was pedestrian and his QB and MLB were able to drag him into more than mediocrity. Maybe Rhule finds something more but there is no indication yet he has more at this time.

Picking 1st and getting a franchise QB changes everything. If Rhule found that he would be doing a lot better but he went in the other direction.

reality is, that largely is the NFL.  Coaches that don't have good QBs generally look bad.  Comes down to finding a QB how far they can take you.     

Pete Carroll was talking this week about what his career would have looked like if he didn't have Russell Wilson.  His answer? He probably wouldn't of lasted in the NFL long. 

Which is why if you don't have a QB.  That should be priority one.  We should of been adding bodies and buying lottery tickets the moment Rhule walked in the door.   Draft a kid.  Add guys like Menshew.  Start having potential possiblities.   Adding one vet that never was good enough.....isn't playing the QB lottery the right way IMO. 

[jayboogieman]

11 hours ago, Waldo said:

Picking 1st and getting a franchise QB changes everything. If Rhule found that he would be doing a lot better but he went in the other direction.

Maybe, maybe not. There is no guarantee that the number 1 pick QB will be a franchise guy. He could be just as likely be a bust as a success, especially with an Oline like the Panthers currently have.

[jayboogieman]

42 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

At least Rhule appears to know how to build a roster.

That remains to be seen and the offensive side of the roster leaves a lot to be desired. Heck, even the defense at linebacker and safety could use some work. The Dline could stand to have some bigger guys on the edge too.

[Waldo]

28 minutes ago, CRA said:

reality is, that largely is the NFL.  Coaches that don't have good QBs generally look bad.  Comes down to finding a QB how far they can take you.     

Pete Carroll was talking this week about what his career would have looked like if he didn't have Russell Wilson.  His answer? He probably wouldn't of lasted in the NFL long. 

Which is why if you don't have a QB.  That should be priority one.  We should of been adding bodies and buying lottery tickets the moment Rhule walked in the door.   Draft a kid.  Add guys like Menshew.  Start having potential possiblities.   Adding a vet that never were good enough.....isn't playing the QB lottery the right way IMO. 

Somebody/s went after Teddy and Sam and were happy with that, that is a huge problem. Like Ron going with Gabbert over Cam bad. Now we might not have the capital to get one this offseason along with line help.

[Waldo]

21 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Maybe, maybe not. There is no guarantee that the number 1 pick QB will be a franchise guy. He could be just as likely be a bust as a success, especially with an Oline like the Panthers currently have.

Always depends on the QBs. Having the choice is big if there is a QB worth it, many are not.

[Carl Spackler]

Rivera had more wins in 2017 than Rhule will have in his entire NFL career.

[jayboogieman]

10 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Always depends on the QBs. Having the choice is big if there is a QB worth it, many are not.

And just look at how many guys became busts that teams thought were worth it over the NFL's history. Most of these guys go to the dumpster fire teams due to the nature of the draft order and is probably why most bust. There just isn't the support needed to get them up to speed through coaching, surrounding cast, or whatever.

This is why I've said keep building the team up and then go in on a rookie QB. That way the rookie should have enough support through his Oline, receivers, defense, and such to at least look good enough to win with. I'm not saying the team needs to be elite at every position, but it does need to be good enough to survive the rookie mistakes and allow the rookie to at least go through his progressions. I don't want to see the Panthers create their own David Carr or Sam Darnold. 

[Silent Majority]

You all just be saying anything

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Panthers would have done well to cut ties with Rivera early on.  Imagine what a competent HC could have done with Cam and Kuechly in their prime?

[OneBadCat]

53 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

That remains to be seen and the offensive side of the roster leaves a lot to be desired. Heck, even the defense at linebacker and safety could use some work. The Dline could stand to have some bigger guys on the edge too.

No doubt but the way they went about it made sense. And its not like they didn't sign Perryman. The dude just didn't want to play here.  Burris is an alright safety. With the emphasis on the corners and pass rush I can see where they think they can get away with lesser talents in other positions.

O-line needs work. But the weapons are there. I think they were expecting to be able to move the chains like last year and let the defense pin their ears back. Sam is a problem. But unlike Rivera, we are seeing draft strategy come to fruition and actual attempts to address problems instead of relying on Cam and the GOAT MLB to call your defense.

[RumHam]

13 hours ago, jfo89 said:

Is this supposed to be a positive? I dont think anyone wants to re-live the Rivera years.

Um super bowl and four playoff appearance. I fuging think we all do

[RumHam]

11 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

No doubt but the way they went about it made sense. And its not like they didn't sign Perryman. The dude just didn't want to play here.  Burris is an alright safety. With the emphasis on the corners and pass rush I can see where they think they can get away with lesser talents in other positions.

O-line needs work. But the weapons are there. I think they were expecting to be able to move the chains like last year and let the defense pin their ears back. Sam is a problem. But unlike Rivera, we are seeing draft strategy come to fruition and actual attempts to address problems instead of relying on Cam and the GOAT MLB to call your defense.

Wait so trading picks for corners that won't see another down for us is strategy?

[Waldo]

29 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

And just look at how many guys became busts that teams thought were worth it over the NFL's history. Most of these guys go to the dumpster fire teams due to the nature of the draft order and is probably why most bust. There just isn't the support needed to get them up to speed through coaching, surrounding cast, or whatever.

This is why I've said keep building the team up and then go in on a rookie QB. That way the rookie should have enough support through his Oline, receivers, defense, and such to at least look good enough to win with. I'm not saying the team needs to be elite at every position, but it does need to be good enough to survive the rookie mistakes and allow the rookie to at least go through his progressions. I don't want to see the Panthers create their own David Carr or Sam Darnold. 

If you have a chance at a franchise QB, you take it. The hard part is knowing which is a franchise QB and which is a Darnold. The year we got Cam some wanted Gabbert but his film was really bad, not college bad but NFL bad. Those 2 shouldn't have even been in the same conversation. 

You can always sit them and play a dud for a year. No roster is perfect, it not Madden. Some are just ran a lot better and more consistent than others. Even if you have one, and there is one there you might should take him, like Rodgers. It's a great problem to have. 

Drafted guys bust because the scouting was bad or the team didn't put them in a good spot. Maybe a freak injury. It's hard to quantify because there are so many examples going everywhich way. 

[jayboogieman]

10 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

No doubt but the way they went about it made sense. And its not like they didn't sign Perryman. The dude just didn't want to play here.  Burris is an alright safety. With the emphasis on the corners and pass rush I can see where they think they can get away with lesser talents in other positions.

O-line needs work. But the weapons are there. I think they were expecting to be able to move the chains like last year and let the defense pin their ears back. Sam is a problem. But unlike Rivera, we are seeing draft strategy come to fruition and actual attempts to address problems instead of relying on Cam and the GOAT MLB to call your defense.

It could be argued Rivera knew how to build a team too. He focused on the Dline and linebackers while making due with the secondary since he believed the front seven were more important.

On offense, he had Smith, Olsen, Shockey, and double trouble for weapons in Cam's early years. Cam also had a much better Oline to work with. And since Cam tended to throw high, they tried to draft him taller receivers. Of course, that didn't work out too well.

And yeah, as the years went on, Ron depended more on his elite two talents than he should have, especially Cam on offense.

It's way too early to tell if Rhule truly knows how to build a winning team at the NFL level. He hasn't done badly on defense and has his own take on what to do there. Now on offense? It seems the man needs some help.