How far out do you think this team is from being Super Bowl caliber ready

[davos]

Two years or 4+ from being a legit contender dependent on if we pull it together w/Rhule.  Problem is we're trending down in year 2 of a rebuild, which you know, sucks.  And honestly, have no real central leader on either side of the ball.  Brown, Chinn, Burns, & Horn are a most solid foundation on D but we seem rudderless as a team with a lack of identity and some bland as$ offense. 

We need to have some momentum the second half of the season or it will be much bleaker. 

And this coming offseason, we need to either land known commodities or great draft picks.  No more of this mediocre 4-7 year vet former first rounder almost bust mentality.  

The DL and Secondary are pretty set.  But we've built them so at the expense of pretty much everywhere else.  We will have a ton of money for Fit to work with so this upcoming offseason will be super telling about who we can realistically pull into the QC and how they want to build the team. 

If we happen into a special QB that can run this team, that us saves time.  But given we've plucked Bridgewater and Darnold so far with this staff, I'm not getting excited for their next choice.

 

[CmC2k]

I'd say we are a decent safety and linebacker or two on defense but we are no where near on offense.

[Khyber53]

Right now, I'm not sure we're even ready to compete against Atlanta this weekend, much less make predictions for the future.

We looked horrible in 2002, we looked bad in 2014. We went to the Super Bowl both following years.

Getting to the Super Bowl is often a game of luck, injury avoidance and catching lightning in a bottle for one of the teams if not both. That can happen in any given year for just about any franchise, and those teams win almost half of the Super Bowls. 

What everyone here seems to be talking about is building a solid, long term team that regularly competes for conference championships and the big game. That takes time and commitment from coaching and players alike. That is what Rhule is wanting to do here, it's what everyone wants, but it just doesn't look like he had the experience to build it the right way. 

[kungfoodude]

We need to fix the QB and the OL. Without those, Super Bowl caliber is off the table. We also need to retain our core players and get them more experience. 

Let's say we can accomplish all of those goals. I would think that is a minimum of 2 seasons away and that is if everything goes perfectly for us. Realistically, if things STILL go well, 3-5 seasons.

[kungfoodude]

38 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Right now, I'm not sure we're even ready to compete against Atlanta this weekend, much less make predictions for the future.

We looked horrible in 2002, we looked bad in 2014. We went to the Super Bowl both following years.

Getting to the Super Bowl is often a game of luck, injury avoidance and catching lightning in a bottle for one of the teams if not both. That can happen in any given year for just about any franchise, and those teams win almost half of the Super Bowls. 

What everyone here seems to be talking about is building a solid, long term team that regularly competes for conference championships and the big game. That takes time and commitment from coaching and players alike. That is what Rhule is wanting to do here, it's what everyone wants, but it just doesn't look like he had the experience to build it the right way. 

We think they want to build for the long term but they make so many moves that seem very "short term" oriented. I am not sure they really understand the "long haul" strategy. 

[SetfreexX]

We are a solid OL, and legit QB away from being a playoff team, not playoff contender but team. The issue is those are the hardest positions to come by which is why I'm irritated we passed on Fields at #8, I think he'd be better here, and with the OL struggles he has the athleticism to save himself early, not to mention IF we truly wanted to run 30 times a game, having a run threat at QB to keep backside pursuit honest who has a great arm would've been nice. 

[SetfreexX]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

That was the premise behind my tank for Trevor plans. Heck, even one more loss would have gotten us a cherry offer from SF. We would have been “forced” to draft Slater at 12 and unfortunately had SF’s 1st in 2022 and 2023 and their 3rd in 2022. That would have sucked. F U Rivera and that idiot who dropped the punt at the goal line. We’d have picks 10 and 14 right now and I think that 14 is trending up. Get a couple top CBs.

Don't blame Rivera, blame this staff, we should have rested starters the last few weeks, I don't believe in that pointless wins bs ''winning culture'' bro this is your job you're paid millions; if you need a win for motivation you're in the wrong place. It does nothing, same crap when we got that pointless win versus NO in 17' and we dropped 9 spots to 16, and we got lucky Burns was still there. 

[kungfoodude]

50 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

We are a solid OL, and legit QB away from being a playoff team, not playoff contender but team. The issue is those are the hardest positions to come by which is why I'm irritated we passed on Fields at #8, I think he'd be better here, and with the OL struggles he has the athleticism to save himself early, not to mention IF we truly wanted to run 30 times a game, having a run threat at QB to keep backside pursuit honest who has a great arm would've been nice. 

Or Slater. My God...that guy has the look of a surefire thing even now. 

[Panther'sBigD]

18 hours ago, TheBigKat said:

I’d say 3-4 seasons at least

 

 this team will need to rebuild their o line

 find a franchise QB

 learn to move on from CMC

 

 THANKFULLY the team has very good young building blocks but realistically we’re no where near being an upper echelon team in the NFL for the foreseeable future

Hopefully long enough for you to repaint your RV to Bucs colors and jump ship to Tampa...

[Khyber53]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

We think they want to build for the long term but they make so many moves that seem very "short term" oriented. I am not sure they really understand the "long haul" strategy. 

Can't really argue with you there.

See, while a team tries to slowly and steadily build a culture, an identity and a strong presence on the playing field over a number of years, the stars that they start with age, their contracts go up, they move on or succumb to injuries. If it takes us three more years to become something great, we also have to look at the potential loss of players like CMC, Thompson, Moore, Chinn and Burns to all the vagaries of life in the NFL.

Can you do both? Build for tomorrow and compete today? Yeah, it can be done but it requires a good coaching staff and a GM working together with a solid plan. Do we have that here?

I'm beginning to think we don't. I'm not just seeing us developing and coaching players well. Our offensive line should have a decent mix of vets and youngsters. It should have people who know what they are doing. But watch and you'll see that, injuries aside, these guys aren't working together, they aren't holding their own. Heck, they're even being outmuscled on play after play. That kind of failure shows that it's the OC, the line coach, the assistants, the QC coach and the strength and conditioning guys aren't on the same page or may not be competent at their jobs. We (and other teams) have had decent (and that's all we're asking for here) lines with much worse pedigrees.

At QB, there's an obvious problem with the OC and QB coach not developing Darnold. It's not just about the passes and the limited selection of plays they are choosing, but this is a kid that cannot spot where the pressure is coming from. Part of that isn't that there's one weak spot on the line, but that any or the entire line can and will collapse on each play. The kid's mobile but he only moves out of the pocket when chased rather than sometimes by design. And play calling... sheesh they must be radioing in complicated plays based on the time on the clock when the ball is snapped and the confusion of routes and receivers. And how about a running play once in a while???

On defense, I hate to say it, but the formula has been found on us. Folks want to put it on the offense and not getting rest, but it's not like we're picking up the sacks and INTs in the first and second quarters like we used to. We're not getting our D off the field in the first quarter much less the first half like we used to. Opposing teams have learned to  pinch down to the center of the D-line to break open running lanes and wear down Burns and Reddick by hitting them with running backs. Our zone defense has been terrible, too. It might be the loss of Horn there, but there's a ton of big name guys back there that aren't getting the INTs or even pass break ups. All of those things point to coaching issues and later in the game, to conditioning issues as well.

Special teams, with the exception of one great play by Luvu, have been a joke. Period. Hard stop. We fielded a high school punter last week. We're going to give an Aussie rules guy a shot this week. We can't tackle on kick coverage for crap and a relatively talented Erickson isn't getting anywhere on punt returns and we just pulled a former Viking off his couch to handle kick offs. Sheeesh.

And let's get to the drops issue. Coaches better have every WR, TE, RB and FB on the roster out there in a line just catching passes from the jugs machine for two hours a day. And set that motherfuger on the highest setting. This is the big leagues, if that ball comes in hot catch it and run. After the game you can, in the words of Smitty, "Ice up, son."

Back to where I started. This team isn't looking like it's on the path to greatness. It looks like a summer camp team the week before they all head home.

[GOAT]

I have this sinking feeling that nothing will ever change until I stop focusing on the team for a while. Try to rid of the nostalgia and previous memories. Then one day a whole new team will come out of nowhere, one with promise and a completely different look. I'll barely know the coaches or players, but I think that we are so far away that maybe when my son is older he can enjoy watching them win again with me. Not sure I'm able to stop focusing on them as much as I do, but it's like watching a clock. Just feels much slower and agonizing waiting for the time to come.

[kungfoodude]

20 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Can't really argue with you there.

See, while a team tries to slowly and steadily build a culture, an identity and a strong presence on the playing field over a number of years, the stars that they start with age, their contracts go up, they move on or succumb to injuries. If it takes us three more years to become something great, we also have to look at the potential loss of players like CMC, Thompson, Moore, Chinn and Burns to all the vagaries of life in the NFL.

Can you do both? Build for tomorrow and compete today? Yeah, it can be done but it requires a good coaching staff and a GM working together with a solid plan. Do we have that here?

I'm beginning to think we don't. I'm not just seeing us developing and coaching players well. Our offensive line should have a decent mix of vets and youngsters. It should have people who know what they are doing. But watch and you'll see that, injuries aside, these guys aren't working together, they aren't holding their own. Heck, they're even being outmuscled on play after play. That kind of failure shows that it's the OC, the line coach, the assistants, the QC coach and the strength and conditioning guys aren't on the same page or may not be competent at their jobs. We (and other teams) have had decent (and that's all we're asking for here) lines with much worse pedigrees.

At QB, there's an obvious problem with the OC and QB coach not developing Darnold. It's not just about the passes and the limited selection of plays they are choosing, but this is a kid that cannot spot where the pressure is coming from. Part of that isn't that there's one weak spot on the line, but that any or the entire line can and will collapse on each play. The kid's mobile but he only moves out of the pocket when chased rather than sometimes by design. And play calling... sheesh they must be radioing in complicated plays based on the time on the clock when the ball is snapped and the confusion of routes and receivers. And how about a running play once in a while???

On defense, I hate to say it, but the formula has been found on us. Folks want to put it on the offense and not getting rest, but it's not like we're picking up the sacks and INTs in the first and second quarters like we used to. We're not getting our D off the field in the first quarter much less the first half like we used to. Opposing teams have learned to  pinch down to the center of the D-line to break open running lanes and wear down Burns and Reddick by hitting them with running backs. Our zone defense has been terrible, too. It might be the loss of Horn there, but there's a ton of big name guys back there that aren't getting the INTs or even pass break ups. All of those things point to coaching issues and later in the game, to conditioning issues as well.

Special teams, with the exception of one great play by Luvu, have been a joke. Period. Hard stop. We fielded a high school punter last week. We're going to give an Aussie rules guy a shot this week. We can't tackle on kick coverage for crap and a relatively talented Erickson isn't getting anywhere on punt returns and we just pulled a former Viking off his couch to handle kick offs. Sheeesh.

And let's get to the drops issue. Coaches better have every WR, TE, RB and FB on the roster out there in a line just catching passes from the jugs machine for two hours a day. And set that motherfuger on the highest setting. This is the big leagues, if that ball comes in hot catch it and run. After the game you can, in the words of Smitty, "Ice up, son."

Back to where I started. This team isn't looking like it's on the path to greatness. It looks like a summer camp team the week before they all head home.

I am not sure about the player development yet. At some level, it does seem like our most talented guys are getting by on just that....talent. I'll save that barb for a season or so from now but I share the same general suspicion. 

At OL, I think the biggest damning thing about how we have operated is just the constant shuffling of the offensive line. I get that you guys all fuged up and have assembled a horrifying pile of turds. However, pick five fuging turds and a few backup turds and roll with them. My God, how often do we have ANY player other than Paradis start at the same position each week? That is a recipe for disaster no matter what level of football you are playing at. I don't know if they just have no clue what to do, or they are just grasping at straws or they have this ridiculous hard on for "versatility" for whatever reason but the WORST thing for an OL unit is constant flux and people played multiple positions throughout the year. That wouldn't work anywhere in the NFL.

At QB.....the best thing I think we can do is just take the ball out of his hands as much as possible until CMC returns. Even then, I am not sure it will be as easy for the offense because the flaws have been exposed. The best I have is a run heavy attack(say, 60/40) and just see what happens. It's very obvious we cannot trust Darnold to run the plays. He just doesn't have it and no level of coaching is going to fix it. The Panthers article this week basically telegraphs that fact. 

As for the defense, I think the biggest issues have been run support but largely just injuries. It's underappreciated how banged up we are on that side of that ball. Furthermore, they have still managed to be a top 10 caliber defense, despite the offense shitting the bed every week. I have minimal issues with that side of the ball. I think we will get better if we get healthier. 

Special teams.....well......that's another, "I have no answers" group. The returner situation has been bad forever. The kicking situation is just about the worst it has ever been. I like our placekicker well enough but now we have punter issues. I cannot recall a span of time where either our kicker or punter was absolute trash but here we are. 

All the drops, I suspect it is a product of the overall dysfunction on that side of the ball. The fact that it isn't just one player but most players, that says a lot. It isn't helped by the QB having terrible timing and terrible ball placement. I suspect if we have at least an average QB or, hell, even just Teddy Bridgewater, those drops start to drop dramatically. Not trying to excuse the lack of execution on their part but I don't think all these players just magically turned to poo. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by kungfoodude

[Wanderlai]

Super Bowl caliber.....y’all just kidding right? 

[captfluoro]

This year baby!  Just put $20 on them at 500/1 odds at Cherokee casino. $10,000 coming my way in February!  
 

Hey a guy can dream, can’t he?