Bridgewater(2020) vs. Darnold(2021) through 6 games.

[CRA]

17 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Skunking the Lions wasn’t nearly as impressive as the Saints win. Stafford was hurt and literally couldn’t throw the ball that game. The Lions with an ineffective Stafford is garbage. The D gave up 0 points, not PJ. His best game ever and he still throws 2 interceptions and has 1 TD? Sam looked better in each of the first four weeks than PJ looked against Detroit.

Would PJ have had that 96 yard drive with the drops? I’d say no, but have fun. I’d love to see PJ in there now. I don’t know if Sam is the answer but damn, I’d love to see that train wreck.

If a D gives up zero points in the NFL….the O is part of that equation. 

point remains, PJ is more a lateral move than anything.   He isn’t going to tank us vs trotting Sam out there.  Sam isn’t in some wildly different tier. 

PJ completed 70% of his passes and would have been near 80% of his passes if not for drops.  It’s was a decent debut game.  Did he have two bad throws in the red zone?  Yeah, but our starter outed the team as not even letting him get the reps needed there. And one of the playcalls on one was horrific for a guy making his first NFL start. 

again, I am not under the illusion PJ is anything more than a backup.   But that’s is what Sam is.  That’s the point.    And PJ isn’t Jimmy Clausen.   He doesn’t implode your ability to compete vs what else we have trotted out there in recent years.  Because none of them should be starting.  It’s a lateral move at the end of the day.

if Sam had a PJ Lions game….the Sam fanboys would be peacocking around and using it as an example that Sam can play.   Joe Brady just bashed for those horrible redzone calls...and all the attention on everything minus 2 throws.   I mean, Sam was praised for the Jets game, in case there is any doubt.    

[mav1234]

5 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Yes let’s draft a rookie QB like basically every other successful franchise. 
 

 Almost it’s every rookie will take their lumps, Herbert and Burrow had horrible lines last year, that didn’t deter them.

I do think we will need to draft a rookie for long term success but I think they're really going to struggle behind our OL.  I think we will see which prospects look decent too as the college season goes on... I wouldn't be surprised with another retread after trying to rebuild the OL and going for a rookie in the following draft.

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Burrow got destroyed last year and the Bengals are lucky he has returned to form.

Herbert is an outlier.

Neither of them had Joe Brady as their OC

Zac Taylor is worse and don’t get me started on Lynn. The fact is good QB can overcome bad lines. The majority of the league had bad lines.

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

God these comments....:

• 2001 - Weinke (15 games), Lytle (1 game)
• 2002 - Peete (14 games), Fasani (1 [0QB rating] game), Weinke (1 game)
• 2007 -[the corpse of] Testaverde (6 games), Carr (4 games), Moore (3 games), Delhomme (3 games)
• 2009 - [the corpse of] Delhomme (11 games),Moore (5 games)
• 2010 - Clausen (10 games), Moore (5 games), St Pierre (1 game)
• 2019 - Allen (12 games), [the corpse of] Newton (2 games), Grier (2 games).   

Delhomme and Newton are the two lone long term starting quarterbacks for the Panthers in a quarter century through numerous coaches. People are right to question what they are seeing you can't ignore that kind of history and odds are not in Darnold's favor with how he is turning the ball over. If you're good with Sam cool. Not everybody else has to feel that way.

[mav1234]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

If a D gives up zero points in the NFL….the O is part of that equation. 

point remains, PJ is more a lateral move than anything.   He isn’t going to tank us vs trotting Sam out there.  Sam isn’t in some wildly different tier. 

PJ completed 70% of his passes and would have been near 80% of his passes if not for drops.  It’s was a decent debut game.  Did he have two bad throws in the red zone?  Yeah, but our starter outed the team as not even letting him get the reps needed there. And one of the playcalls on one was horrific for a guy making his first NFL start. 

again, I am not under the illusion PJ is anything more than a backup.   But that’s is what Sam is.  That’s the point.    And PJ isn’t Jimmy Clausen.   He doesn’t implode your ability to compete vs what else we have trotted out there in recent years.  Because none of them should be starting.  It’s a lateral move at the end of the day.

if Sam had a PJ Lions game….the Sam fanboys would be peacocking around.  

What's the point in starting PJ if he isn't an upgrade?  I'm not sure it is a lateral move.

Why are we acting like PJs Lions Game was very good?  He had 2 interceptions and we would have won with a stuffed doll of Kyle Allen.  

Darnold isn't our answer but holy hell neither is PJ Walker.  

Edit: also lol Darnold has had 4 starts objectively better than PJs Lions gsd, what do you mean his fanboys would be Peacocking over it??

Edited October 19, 2021 by mav1234

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Delhomme and Newton are the two lone long term starting quarterbacks for the Panthers in a quarter century through numerous coaches. People are right to question what they are seeing you can't ignore that kind of history and odds are not in Darnold's favor with how he is turning the ball over. If you're good with Sam cool. Not everybody else has to feel that way.

I'm not good with Darnold but acting like these 6 games are the worst a Panthers QB had played is asinine.  That's what Oldham was responding to.

[PootieNunu]

3 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Zac Taylor is worse and don’t get me started on Lynn. The fact is good QB can overcome bad lines. The majority of the league had bad lines.

We have 1 pick in the first and no more picks until round 4. If we pick a QB with our first he damn well better be a franchise QB, not like the bums that came out this season. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

What's the point in starting PJ if he isn't an upgrade?  I'm not sure it is a lateral move.

Why are we acting like PJs Lions Game was very good?  He had 2 interceptions and we would have won with a stuffed doll of Kyle Allen.  

Darnold isn't our answer but holy hell neither is PJ Walker.  

What's the point?  Well, to an extent it is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.  and again, no one is claiming PJ Walker is the answer here. 

I guess the real point of inserting him...would just be officially ending the delusion that Sam Darnold potentially is.    And it would force us to address QB again.  Instead of risking the odds of rolling into another season with Sam starting for us. 

So to me it isn't about PJ at all.  It's about forcing this team off Sam and not letting the mistake continue into next year.  

and if we lose the next 2 I will officially hold that position.  Probably even if we go 1-1 over the next two games.    Sam is what he is.   He is a backup QB and I think there are backups in the NFL who might be better than him.  

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

What's the point?  Well, to an extend it is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.  and again, no one is claiming PJ Walker is the answer here. 

I guess the real point of inserting him...would just be officially ending the delusion that Sam Darnold potentially is.    And it would force us to address QB again.  Instead of risking the odds of rolling into another season with Sam starting for us. 

So to me it isn't about PJ at all.  It's about forcing this team off Sam and not letting the mistake continue into next year. 

You've been open about your dislike of Darnold. That's fine.  I don't think he's the answer here either.

But, what about the Teddy experience suggests to you the team needs to do what you're proposing?  Just seems unnecessary. 

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I'm not good with Darnold but acting like these 6 games are the worst a Panthers QB had played is asinine.  That's what Oldham was responding to.

Yes I agree that is a reactionary statement. But on the other end of the spectrum you have folks here still talking Sam up like he's a rookie and not a fourth year starter with 8 turnovers in three games.

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

You've been open about your dislike of Darnold. That's fine.  I don't think he's the answer here either.

But, what about the Teddy experience suggests to you the team needs to do what you're proposing?  Just seems unnecessary. 

I don't dislike Darnold.  I disliked making him our starting QB and the only plan.   And all this was obvious.   You think you can fix him? Have it.  I endorsed that early on.  But you don't do what we did.  You throw him on your roster and make him depth.  Maybe let him compete in an actual competition....and see what you can do with him.    You don't make him the one and only plan. 

if at the end of the year Sam is clearly the same Sam we have always seen.  What is the point of rolling with him past this year?  That seems unnecessary.   And just wasted time. 

[MechaZain]

3 hours ago, therealmjl said:

I expect Rhule and co to bring that same offseason energy at QB then. They couldn’t wait to get TB out.

The difference is Sam's not blaming them for his mediocrity. We lost a few games directly because of TB's lackadaisical attitude and he just pointed fingers. Can't have that from the leader of your team. You can't suck and be difficult; pick one.

[Wes21]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Darnold will be gone, it's just a matter of when. Actually, Teddy was very static in his performances prior to the injury. If you look at this stat lines from Week 1 to Week 10, they were all extremely similar. In fact, his QB rating from Week 1 to Week 6 was 94.6. His Week 1 to Week 10 was 98.7. 

That's sort of my point about Teddy. On paper, it looks like he is playing well but his results are losses. It's because he has absolutely zero killer instinct. He will perform the same whether you are up 40 points(as if he could achieve that) or down 40 points. 

The problem with Teddy is bigger.  It reminds me of Sam Bradford, and its why I call Teddy a poor man's Sam Bradford.  There was a point in Sam's career where him and his agent realized he was getting paid based on his efficiency stats.  That's when he taylored his play towards those metrics.  Teddy is doing the same thing.  If you look close, he will take some sacks...particularly in the redzone...that absolutely hurt his team.  But do you know what it didn't hurt?  His efficiency stats.  He didn't force it into coverage and get an INT.  He didn't throw it away like he should have and bring his completion percentage down.  He took the sack and changed a TD drive into a field goal...or a field goal drive to a punt.  THAT is why starting Teddy Two Gloves is a fool's errand.  He knows where his bread is buttered.

[CanadianCat]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the team would be performing better with Teddy right now but I think the overall season results(W's/L's) wouldn't be dramatically different. Darnold will directly lose us games and likely many times. Teddy will not be able to win us games and likely many times. It's really just about how you want to see your losses. 

Exactly. Sam is a high upside, high downside guy. 

TB is just a guy.