Panther Trade Rumors

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

How did you know they would be available to sign at vet minimum after the first wave of FA?  Do you assume we were the only team interested in them and we had the luxury of waiting them out to get them at vet minimum?

I'm just saying that's the type of contracts FAs of that caliber are normally looking at. If someone else wanted to overpay in the meantime, fine. Every team has some JAGs, but you gotta pay JAGs like JAGs. I would rather have lost the opportunity to sign a Pat Elflein than give him 3/$13.5M. Just go after the next guy on the list.

[BlackPanther21_]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We identified guys who we thought would be decent veteran bandaids and we specifically targeted them. They had historically been mediocre and oft-injured. They proved to be mediocre and oft-injured for us. This was entirely predictable. In short, we Hurney's it on the OL this off-season. We made poor evaluations and we spent poorly. Erving and Elflein were vet minimum type of players. Paying them better won't make them better. Classic Hurney type mistake.

Yep, Hurney seemed to always think paying a guy with little experience or quality seasons under their belt would suddenly make them better, and seemed to think the money would magically make their injury history go away as well.

Edited October 13, 2021 by BlackPanther21_

[Jon Snow]

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just saying that's the type of contracts FAs of that caliber are normally looking at. If someone else wanted to overpay in the meantime, fine. Every team has some JAGs, but you gotta pay JAGs like JAGs. I would rather have lost the opportunity to sign a Pat Elflein than give him 3/$13.5M. Just go after the next guy on the list.

And just who was it that they passed on that was guaranteed to be better?

Listen, every move is not going to work out. They've missed on quite a few FA's so far I agree.  I'm as disappointed as anyone about how these overpriced wannabe olinemen are playing.  I'm pretty sure Rhule and Fitt would tell you the same,  and by their statements and actions they are all but coming right out and doing so.  What's done is done so all they can do is to keep looking.   

[TheSpecialJuan]

4 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

I call BS, wifey let me plug every hole in 1 hour last week.

You are indeed a lucky man 

[Jon Snow]

7 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

You are indeed a lucky man 

As a lady doctor I once dated used to say,  it's just another hole.

[TheSpecialJuan]

Quote

Fitterer and the Panthers, according to NFL insider Adam Caplan, were one of a few parties interested in trading for Philadelphia Eagles offensive tackle Andre Dillard during the offseason. Caplan noted the inquiry on the Inside the Birds podcast this past Sunday ahead of the teams’ Week 5 matchup.

Quote

“The Panthers were one of multiple teams that called the Eagles in terms of Dillard’s availability,” he said. “And the word that I got, and that other teams were getting, is that he was not available.”

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/10/13/panthers-inquired-eagles-ot-andre-dillard/

[SBBlue]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

I think we may value the original draft pick slot too much. I’m still happy with Sam and really look forward to seeing him with a working OL, but he, Erving and Elflein were all former 1sts. Maybe the same flashes were all they needed for Erving and Elflein to look past their bad play and injury. We must have thought we could improve them a lot. 

I agree with some of this.  I wanted Minshew when it looked like all the good draft QB's would be gone.    Elflein was a 3rd rounder though I think.

Erving stats last year looked better than Okungs and Erving was more mobile.  There were reports of Okung phoning it in a bit in preseason as well, so they viewed Erving as an slight performance upgrade with 2 years for the price of one.










 

[LinvilleGorge]

20 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

And just who was it that they passed on that was guaranteed to be better?

Listen, every move is not going to work out. They've missed on quite a few FA's so far I agree.  I'm as disappointed as anyone about how these overpriced wannabe olinemen are playing.  I'm pretty sure Rhule and Fitt would tell you the same,  and by their statements and actions they are all but coming right out and doing so.  What's done is done so all they can do is to keep looking.   

I'm not saying who they should or should not have signed. I'm just saying they shouldn't have overpaid historically mediocre and oft-injured players out of desperation. The fact that we signed them pretty much upon the kickoff of free agency tells me that they were the guys we specifically targeted based on our scouting and that obviously we felt they were worth what we were paying. We knew we were going to be targeting mid-level OL FA and they were the guys we identified out of the bunch to go after. That's concerning.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not saying who they should or should not have signed. I'm just saying they shouldn't have overpaid historically mediocre and oft-injured players out of desperation. The fact that we signed them pretty much upon the kickoff of free agency tells me that they were the guys we specifically targeted based on our scouting and that obviously we felt they were worth what we were paying. We knew we were going to be targeting mid-level OL FA and they were the guys we identified out of the bunch to go after. That's concerning.

Rhule said that in a round about way during his press conference today.  From the look on his face he's very concerned about the outcome of that. He just can't come flat out and say he's concerned and their plan has serious flaws.

[LinvilleGorge]

26 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Rhule said that in a round about way during his press conference today.  From the look on his face he's very concerned about the outcome of that. He just can't come flat out and say he's concerned and their plan has serious flaws.

I don't think we ever saw Elflein and Erving as legit "answers", but I definitely think we expected them to be legit vet bandaids. I'm just not exactly sure why.

[PantherPhann89]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

And just who was it that they passed on that was guaranteed to be better?

Listen, every move is not going to work out. They've missed on quite a few FA's so far I agree.  I'm as disappointed as anyone about how these overpriced wannabe olinemen are playing.  I'm pretty sure Rhule and Fitt would tell you the same,  and by their statements and actions they are all but coming right out and doing so.  What's done is done so all they can do is to keep looking.   

[Toomers]

7 hours ago, BrianS said:

The problem with this premise is that it assumes there were legit options available with our salary cap constraints.  I hear you regarding injuries, I really do.  But peruse this list for a bit and be terrified:

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2021G.php

I know, Walter football, they suck.  But it's just a list.  Hard to get that wrong.  The point is that as you read thru that list you see a lot of "wouldn't have cut him if he didn't have injury issues" or "dubious injury history" or "coming off a knee injury".

And even if Walter isn't that great, they had John Miller - yes, our John Miller - as the 13th rated free agent at Guard.  They had Chris Reed - yes, our Chris Reed - as the 15th rated Guard.  

It was just a scary and awful offseason to need IOL.  Look at the list man.  Who do you think we should have tried to sign?

What is the problem with Zeitler or Feiler? Zeitler has been above average for years. And Feiler has gotten better every year and can play RT as well. Either one could have been pursued for same amount as they guaranteed Erv and Elf. Instead the Panthers sign two injury-prone busts who have maybe one decent year between them, as soon as FA opened. 
 

   Anyone else on that list getting 6M guaranteed ranked behind Miller and Reed. Miller is a 27yo who started all last year and not ONE other team would offer him anything but near vet minimum, even as a back up. But Elflein is worth what? And the staff went into the year with 3 spots on the OL manned by players no one else wanted. The Panthers could have easily signed both and changed the team for the better. 2 quality OGs for 7-8M a year each could have left them with a LT(BC) playing with 3 quality vets and Paradis for this year. Or drafted Slater and OL is a strength, not a glaring weakness, for the present and the future. 
 

  As has already been stated, the sequence of events, and lack of effort or evaluation is the issue. There were options. Would have been much easier with the 70M+ the Panthers wasted last year. 

[Jon Snow]

Maybe Tepper should hire Jordan Gross to scout oline prospects for the team?  Hell find someone who can.  Find some rough ass rugby players and teach them how to put a defensive lineman on his ass.

I'm out of suggestions. 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I agree with some of this.  I wanted Minshew when it looked like all the good draft QB's would be gone.    Elflein was a 3rd rounder though I think.

Erving stats last year looked better than Okungs and Erving was more mobile.  There were reports of Okung phoning it in a bit in preseason as well, so they viewed Erving as an slight performance upgrade with 2 years for the price of one.










 

Honestly Erving hasn’t been terrible (or maybe Daley, Paradis, and Miller have made him look good). I keeping thinking Erving, Christensen, Paradis, Brown, and Moton are the way to go. Erving can be plugged in at LG, or LT and BC at RT or G with Brown taking the other guard spot. Paradis would still be there, but maybe he gets better with better guard play? I really want to get a fair evaluation of Darnold with decent protection before the offseason…