2015, 2021 SuperBowl, Yesterday

[ncfan]

3 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

Sam played the Eagles that has one of the worst defenses in the league (theyre #19 as of now because our offense sucked yesterday) Mahomes was doing that against one of the best defenses in the league that year in the most important game of players lives. 
 

Are you trying to say Mahomes wouldn’t have beat the absolute poo out of this Eagles defense even with this line? Because that is laughable. Sam missed wide open players and was throwing interceptions right to defensive players. The excuses for Sam are ridiculous. 

Mahomes was running for his life and attempting super man type throws.  

And he wasn’t even receiving pressure at 47% of snaps

[Shocker]

2 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Not trying to rally the troops necessarily.  Just curious.

and you Are right.  Mahomes has the intangibles.  But he couldn’t over come the OL in the SuperBowl. 
So can elite QB’s overcome poor OL or not?

Any QB would be struggling with pressure coming right up the middle every play.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Shocker

[ncfan]

Just now, Shocker said:

Any QB would be struggling with pressure coming right up he middle every play.  

I mean

 

this is the correct answer.  But still people swear otherwise.

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Not trying to rally the troops necessarily.  Just curious.

and you Are right.  Mahomes has the intangibles.  But he couldn’t over come the OL in the SuperBowl. 
So can elite QB’s overcome poor OL or not?

You are correct he could not but they still got to the biggest game in football on the biggest stage and we just lost to a one win team. Sam was running for his life but there were still plays to be made the Eagles were not a good football team we let them hang around for 3 full quarters they put the win up on a platter for us. Right now there are two hurdles to overcome oline and bad Sam Darnold. Either or both will be our downfall if Sam can't stop turning the ball over.

[TheRumGone]

Just now, ncfan said:

Mahomes was running for his life and attempting super man type throws.  

And he wasn’t even receiving pressure at 47% of snaps

You’re trying to compare the Eagles defense this year to the Bucs defense last year. This oline isn’t adequate but plopping Mahomes on this roster yesterday and he would’ve torched them. Sam is not a good qb. He can be serviceable and game manager esque under certain conditions with a few wow throws but Mahomes gets this game in between the ears, processes quickly and has pin point precision on deep passes. All things Sam lacks for the most part. This isn’t to say our oline shouldn’t be upgraded. But elite qbs win games yesterday like this even with this line.

[Khyber53]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Look man I get you're trying to rally the troops so to speak but this is malarkey and you know it. Mahomes has intangibles our qb is distinctly lacking rn like timing rhythm and the ability to connect deep with his receivers. Even when Sam has time he is misfiring we have no deep passing game to speak of and that is also a reason why defenses are teeing off on him. Yes we all agree about the oline I've been banging the table over it for weeks despite homers here trying to explain to us why it is actually good. But the line is not the only thing that separates us from a quality offense Sam Darnold has got to play much better and get on the same page we have given him weapons.

Umm, Mahomes' intangibles aren't very common, perhaps like four QBs in the league ever have had them like he does. So, let's leave him out of the conversation, as well as Rodgers, Brady and Wilson. Those are rare, best of their generation QBs and as such are unrealistic measuring sticks.

We're trying to determine if Darnold is good or not. No one is trying to make him legendary, so quit putting that up as your testing model.

Could say, Tannehill, Carr, Allen, Prescott, or Stafford have survived and thrived behind the line play we saw yesterday? I think, with the exception of Prescott, we've seen each of them behind bad offensive lines and all of them floundered. Tannehill was written off, as was Carr to the point where there was a time we all thought they would never be starting QBs again. Stafford, who is a world beater now, was literally doomed to purgatory in Detroit behind terrible lines for his whole career. Allen had difficulties his first year, but growth in his mobility and line improvements have pushed him to the top. Prescott hasn't had to play behind any kind of suspect line since probably high school.

Darnold's stuck right now, but it doesn't mean he's a failure, as one really bad game doesn't destroy his potential, just like three good games don't erase his past. We've got 12 more games to see how he does -- growth or wilt. 

 

[BrianS]

1 minute ago, Shocker said:

Any QB would be struggling with pressure coming right up the middle every play.  

This cannot be said enough.  Pressure up the middle is the WORST CASE SCENARIO for any QB.  It's the fastest, most direct way to put a QB under pressure.

Why does that matter?  Well, obviously because defensively you WANT to put the QB under pressure to force mistakes.  You cannot ask ANY QB - Mahomes, Rogers, Brady, etc - to face pressure on 50% of his drops.

How do you beat a great QB?  Pressure and contain.  If that's the formula for beating the best of the best, how much does that affect a guy who isn't in that stratosphere?

I don't know if Sam is the answer.  Maybe, I have no strong feelings either way at this point.  But this game wasn't a fair representation.  No QB should ever face pressure on half his drops.

[45catfan]

Here is the problem with this offense and the issues often compound themselves.

1) OL sucks, therefore

2) Sam is rushing his throws and often locking onto his initial read, becasue

3) CMC's hurt; his main relief valve under pressure if Sam doesn't like what he sees downfield, leading to

4) Getting behind the chains, turnovers and 3-and-outs, which means

5) Our defense has to play more & more opportunities for our opponents to score and take a lead, therfore

6) Brady has to try to dial up chunk yardage plays to come from behind and opposing D's pin their ears back, which leaves us at

See #1

[ncfan]

1 minute ago, TheRumGone said:

You’re trying to compare the Eagles defense this year to the Bucs defense last year. This oline isn’t adequate but plopping Mahomes on this roster yesterday and he would’ve torched them. Sam is not a good qb. He can be serviceable and game manager esque under certain conditions with a few wow throws but Mahomes gets this game in between the ears, processes quickly and has pin point precision on deep passes. All things Sam lacks for the most part. This isn’t to say our oline shouldn’t be upgraded. But elite qbs win games yesterday like this even with this line.

That Eagles Defense still pressured the QB 47% of the snaps yesterday.  More that Mahomes in the Super Bowl.

so pretty comparative.  Take the teams names off and look at the stats and play.  
Panthers QB was pressured Green team yesterday 47% of the time

cheifs QB pressured a lot but less by red team last Super Bowl

[Panther'sBigD]

25 minutes ago, ncfan said:

why the narrative change?

 

 

 

Because waiting another offseason for the FO to fix the offensive line will take patience and trust, and people need someone to be mad at NOW. 
 

And because the Seahawks never invested in a stellar offensive line, and Fitterer worked for the Seahawks and no one who gets a shot to run things their own way ever deviates from the way their former employer did things, they only make the same mistakes. It’s science. 

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Umm, Mahomes' intangibles aren't very common, perhaps like four QBs in the league ever have had them like he does. So, let's leave him out of the conversation, as well as Rodgers, Brady and Wilson. Those are rare, best of their generation QBs and as such are unrealistic measuring sticks.

We're trying to determine if Darnold is good or not. No one is trying to make him legendary, so quit putting that up as your testing model.

Could say, Tannehill, Carr, Allen, Prescott, or Stafford have survived and thrived behind the line play we saw yesterday? I think, with the exception of Prescott, we've seen each of them behind bad offensive lines and all of them floundered. Tannehill was written off, as was Carr to the point where there was a time we all thought they would never be starting QBs again. Stafford, who is a world beater now, was literally doomed to purgatory in Detroit behind terrible lines for his whole career. Allen had difficulties his first year, but growth in his mobility and line improvements have pushed him to the top. Prescott hasn't had to play behind any kind of suspect line since probably high school.

Darnold's stuck right now, but it doesn't mean he's a failure, as one really bad game doesn't destroy his potential, just like three good games don't erase his past. We've got 12 more games to see how he does -- growth or wilt. 

Nobody has been trying to compare Sam to elite quarterbacks these are responses to the original post that mentioned Mahomes. Rn I don't see any valid comparisons other than previous draft busts bc as much as some folks here want Sam to be a literal rookie he is not. He is now in his fourth year throwing the same bad picks he always has. Joe Brady isn't doing him favors though and I think we have to look at a different option after the season no matter what happens with Sam. I'm pretty much over the college offense crap we need some real NFL experience in here.

[Catsfan69]

27 minutes ago, frankw said:

People are biased against embarrassing losses put away the violin and raise the bar.

Defense falls on the fumble we win.

Don't get punt blocked we win.

Robbie doesn't drop winning catch we win

Brian Burns doesn't make a 6th grade defensive mistake we probably win.

[ncfan]

7 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Umm, Mahomes' intangibles aren't very common, perhaps like four QBs in the league ever have had them like he does. So, let's leave him out of the conversation, as well as Rodgers, Brady and Wilson. Those are rare, best of their generation QBs and as such are unrealistic measuring sticks.

We're trying to determine if Darnold is good or not. No one is trying to make him legendary, so quit putting that up as your testing model.

Could say, Tannehill, Carr, Allen, Prescott, or Stafford have survived and thrived behind the line play we saw yesterday? I think, with the exception of Prescott, we've seen each of them behind bad offensive lines and all of them floundered. Tannehill was written off, as was Carr to the point where there was a time we all thought they would never be starting QBs again. Stafford, who is a world beater now, was literally doomed to purgatory in Detroit behind terrible lines for his whole career. Allen had difficulties his first year, but growth in his mobility and line improvements have pushed him to the top. Prescott hasn't had to play behind any kind of suspect line since probably high school.

Darnold's stuck right now, but it doesn't mean he's a failure, as one really bad game doesn't destroy his potential, just like three good games don't erase his past. We've got 12 more games to see how he does -- growth or wilt. 

 

I’m not even trying to compare the players itself Mahomes vs Darnold.

mahomes has tools no one has seen before.

but he STILL couldn’t overcome bad OL play.  It was so noticing that the Chiefs FO made some major reactionary moves to overhaul that OL.  

this guy couldn’t overcome that and his FO did what they did because of it.

 

 

yet we somehow say that any elite QB would have looked good behind a historically bad OL yesterday 

[Mol3m4n]

2/3 interceptions were in a clean pocket.